PTR Spoiler/Discussion Thread (Part 3)

It wasn’t even years upon years of build-up. Most of the information we got about the Army of the Light came from Light’s Heart, the shard of Xe’ra that we recovered during 7.0, and Lothraxion, all of which made the Army of the Light sound far grander than it turned up to be just one year later.

7.0 - 7.2: Hype up the Army of the Light as a ragtag army of numerous near-extinct alien races and redeemed demons, all united under the banner of the naaru.
7.3: Just kidding, it’s actually just one spaceship with one naaru and a bunch of bleached draenei space marines.

Blizzard really could have managed expectations better with that one.

14 Likes

What people rarely take into consideration when talking about allied races is that those races were often offshoots of other races that were already part of the factions.

Lightforged staying neutral in a conflict between a faction that contains their people against a faction that wants to destroy them is nonsensical. It doesn’t matter that Illidan killed X’era a year ago when orcs are trying to kill draenei right now.

Similarly, mechagnomes and gnomes not rejoining their people simply because goblins helped too wouldn’t make much sense, especially since the war was over when they did.

It’s also why people criticized Earthen being on the Horde. Sure, they aren’t dwarves, but all the Titan races are on the Alliance side. Culturally, an Earthen will fit way more in faction with dwarves, gnomes and mechagnomes who are all about exploring Titan stuff, than in the faction with trolls, tall trolls, pink trolls, blue trolls and bunch of other people who don’t really care about Titans.

When it comes to Nightborne, issue isn’t that they joined the faction with blood elves. Issue is that they went to war with the Alliance right after.

And the same “but why?” applies to void elves too. Why do they suddenly want to fight their brethren in the name of the Alliance? Is their banishment for being a threat to Sunwell (a decision Alleria can prove was likely right) really enough?
(Insert obligatory “void elves should have been transformed Silver Covenant” comment because it would solve all the issues the race has)

6 Likes

not nessecarily on a technical level. though several generations removed, the orcish race’s lineage traces back to creation by Aggramar during the taming of draenor against the Genesaur’s progenitor, as do the Ogre’s.

1 Like

I still think blood elves going Horde way back in Burning Crusade is wierd, given their history of hostile experiences with orcs, trolls and undead.

NElves+Draenei in Horde, Forsaken+Belves in Alliance.

Ah, what could have been.

2 Likes

I’ve always wondered what WoW would have been like if they’d gone with 3 factions instead of 2.

Like the Alliance being Humans, Dwarfs, Gnomes the Horde being Orcs, Trolls, Tauren and the 3rd faction being Belves, Undead and idk.

4 Likes

Goblins if they went with their original plans for race releases. They would have fit a third faction

My pipe dream for some distant future of WoW is to only have the reputation system instead of forced factions. Certain races could gain benefits towards certain groups at the start but you can always wheel and deal your way into any reputation you want while there also exists polar opposites (a la Scryers and Aldor).

3 Likes

I personally never liked this idea. Forsaken being outcasts just fits them so well. Their exclusion from the Alliance makes tons of sense. Blood elves being shaken to their core and taking any help offered, only to later find out that they’re now basically stuck with their choices is also thematically sound.

Night Elves being weakened after the loss of Nordrassil and a bunch of allies choosing a side makes sense, too. I think both Alliance and Horde would have been fine, but I imagine the Forsaken joining the Horde might have put off the Night Elves. Even if they forgave the Orcs for killing Cenarius.

As for Draenei, I think their history with the Orcs is so violently cruel that there really was no choice but to go Alliance (naturally helped by the commonalities in faith and the location of their crashsite in night elven territory).

Besides, how boring would it be if each faction basically just controlled a continent?

1 Like

That’s why there should be more than two factions, or none at all. Sure, there can and should be be tactical or even strategic alliances between different races and nations, but with how many people of all kinds are caught outside their niche, it’d make a much more compelling story if we had more freedom in representing more than one of two military blocks.

5 Likes

All of what you said is well reasoned and good points.

However, I think it would be very funny if the Alliance were forced to put up with Nathanos.

4 Likes

I’m not sure I can agree with this. I mean, I personally would not mind it if factions devolved into mini factions of closer allies (Let’s say Orcs, Tauren and Darkspear Trolls, for example) and have us explore the stories of these alliances, but from the perspective of the characters that wouldn’t make a lot of sense would it?

Both the Horde and the Alliance have proven many times over that it’s actually pretty useful to be part of a large faction. You could say that there should be one mega faction, but I think the waters run too deep between a lot of Alliance and Horde races.

And then there is probably also the additional factor of economies that have been tuned on Alliance and Horde allies. It’s not something you just step away from, I imagine.

I can see the comedic value in this.

I don’t say they shouldn’t exist. It’s more about the fact that the world shouldn’t be spinning around the two. Over the entire history of the game we have seen many, many times more people as enemies than friends, without any option to explore different sides of the world and its conflicts. Even if things like Twilight’s Hammer or the Burning Legion are out of the question because of their apocalyptic nature, different goblin cartels, troll tribes, human states and other such entities should be more than NPC factions we don’t have a possible chance to join.

Maybe that’s why he was so unhappy. He wanted to be alliance but his girlfriend made him roll horde.

Dragonflight was relatively free of this, no? So was Shadowlands (dread it), and I think TWW, too? Alliance and Horde are present, sure, but they’re not the drivers of the story.

And so many people complained about it, and everyone Getting On Just Fine :dracthyr_shrug:

5 Likes

“but my faction wars. i cant see without my faction wars.”

5 Likes

Yeah turns out removing one of the many aspects of the human (yeah yeah, I know.) experience when atrocities and grudges that should be multi-generational - Scratch even that, the people who suffered through it are long lived enough to remember each one of them - makes for poor world building.

2 Likes

Poor world building and the world never actively changing makes for poor world building because the world building is poor.

4 Likes

This also comes from a time when the Alliance was dogmatic and imperiously arrogant; they’re using fel magic and working with demons don’t yannow? As per the Draenei starting zone. So let’s spy on them in Eversong, where we deem them reckless with zero understanding or sympathy. Get the night elves in to spy further!!!

The blood elves being shunted to the Horde is a remnant of an Alliance narrative and themes that died out in Cataclysm onwards.

It makes the rapid acceptance of void elves “because Alleria vouched for them”, quite a glaring double standard that’s… just not even recognised.

3 Likes