I think you are forgetting Theramore’s immediate counterpart, the Purge of Dalaran. Different scale? Sure. Entirely, openly spiteful, brutal and cruel in its execution? Absolutely.
I think this is a lesson both organizers and would-be attendees circa BfA would’ve been well-off learning at the time, but there’s no turning back time. I still recall organizers getting immediately swarmed with “where’s the neutral hub??” whenever they’d announce another RP-PvP campaign.
I just find it cringe and boring for the factions to just hug each other all over DF if they appeared, when they tried to delete each other from existence for decades and last war ended cca 4 years ago. That’s just silly. I am not asking for some grim dark perpetual war like Warhammer. Just some believable tension. No even need to have open war. The lack of conflict in WARcraft isn’t also fault of the truce but also boring villain like Primalists who pretty much did absolutely nothing. They were just nameless target dummies without any characteristics. The opposite of the Jailer. Jailer was too complicated while Primalists are just too simple and just like Jailer they spawned out of nowhere. Their case is even worse and motivation completely unexplored. Incarnates took all the focus. Such a villain is not an argument for “having a conflict”. But hey, according to the neutral peacelovers we are bad people, racists and should go play Classic for wanting to have a troll hating and complaining about Alliance burning his village in one of the past wars, which is understandable. If I buy a power metal album, I expect power metal, not hip hop, and you are both ridiculous and quite despicable for being mad at me for it and I am not sorry.
I even understand both narrative and technical arguments against faction wars and divide, but they simply refuse to listen to mine. I guess I just run into few wrong people on the internet cesspool and overthinking it, but this is simply my impression from this “War in Warcraft” thing. (not this thread, this is actually quite nice.)
Neutral characters can be at RP-PVP if the fighting is defensive for their side. There is precedent.
Maestro’s post in Vanilla had a human and a dwarf Argent Dawn member in the post. During Cata, you find them dead, having chosen to defend the place against Horde attack.
There was a redridge campaign in Legion where some Silver Hand paladins had set aside a building for wounded civilians and unarmed wounded soldiers, and they made it clear that while they wouldn’t join the fighting, they would defend the makeshift hospital with lethal force.
A lot of posters have covered my thoughts on it but I’m not sure if this has been mentioned: rivalry
Some of the best RP I’ve had was in RP-PvP often against a recurring enemy on the other side. While I find MCU tier banter to be cringe, I found that the occasional barb before, in the midst and after the fight added more flavour to the encounter and created long lasting memories of characters to this day.
Exactly how I feel. It’s been a while since I’ve posted (or interacted with the forums) but this is something I wanted to comment on in particular because we have a strange phenomena of people that can’t seem to seperate their political beliefs from fiction or are otherwise so brain rotted from imageboards, twitter, etc, that they’re trying to wage internet culture war on people who are playing pretend in a video game.
No, there’s no hidden meaning behind wanting the game to adhere to its roots. Zero faction hostility and the complete erasure of the factions identity isn’t a positive, an amorphous grey blob is not entertaining. Races that have spent decades waging ethnic blood fueds against each other should be openly hostile to each other. That doesn’t mean we need another faction war but I do think it’s important that the races have their differences because that’s what makes the game interesting. Conflict doesn’t have to take place on a large scale and completely removing it from the game makes everything feel inauthentic.
(Typing from an old laptop so I’ve had to edit it a few times, apologies)
Finally got around to reading this post and I agree! There are fights in Wetherspoons that involve more people than some RP-PVP battles I’ve been in, so for sure there is going to be absolutely 0 impact on the world and lore.
Hell, many guilds that engage in RP-PVP aren’t even military groups and so have even more freedom!
I think faction conflict is at its best when it’s like what it was in Classic. No war, just two factions that really didn’t like eachother.
On the topic though, one of my pet peeves is that when there are RP-PVP campaigns, there’s always some that makes a really random NPC claiming to be envoy of the king or something and then attends and goes “End this war now or the King will hear of this”. Really boring + cringe and doesn’t add to anything.
Personally I believe that if you want to do RP-PVP , you’re not wrong for doing so, live and let live.
However some of you really need to stop pretending to be a victim of persecution for wanting to RP-PVP. I do not know how many of you were around when WoW was at the height of faction-warfare, and it were in fact the warheads constantly chiding the ones wishing to make peace, but let me assure you, it was just as bad. And they were just as wrong for doing so as the peacelovers chiding you for rp’ing what you wish now.
And before you say it, no I’m also not a fan of things getting resolved just like that, there were parts that Dragonflight could’ve done better ( the Gilneas questline was atrocious, especially for me who rp’s a Gilnean who very much has something to say about the Forsaken).
Is this still an actual thing? I’ve attended a fair number of RP-PvP events since Dragonflight launched and I haven’t noticed the representatives of the Armistice Accord Committee rolling up at skirmishes demanding that everyone stand down.
Sounds almost like a different kind of powergaming move. Rather than try to be the biggest, strongest unbeatable person, instead you create a NPC to try and use the lore to enforce others to adhere to RP in an “ACHTUALLY! The LORE is on MY SIDE!” kind of way so that if you say you dont recognise their NPC envoy they can go “LOOK AT THESE PEOPLE. BAD RP. IGNORING THE LORE.”
It does come across as a bit hyprocritical when people who used to throw a lot of crap and mockery at neutral roleplayers, now want sympathy from those same roleplayers in support of their preferred type of RP.
But then you pull Pro Gamer move “The lore is made to be bended little bit. It is base that you follow but you can add little spices here and there.” I am not saying you should and you shouldn’t go full “I ignore this fully” Instead going “I understand but I gave little added thing to this already existing thing to make it more reasonable.”
They can also just use the reasoning I posted in the OP. The fact Neutral/armistice/unity etc. RPers haven’t is ultimately up to them.
Not to mention this thread isn’t meant for them nor to lament what happened during the atrocity that was BFA. It’s to encourage and uplift all my fellow warmongers and to remind them that Azeroth is big enough for everyone
As Hatescale has said, that was already answered here:
Some of these people didn’t participate in the rebel/loyalist scene, nor did they deal much with neutral roleplayers back then.
As for the ones that did, I try not to think of it as hypocrisy, but as personal growth. They know better than they did back then and if the tables ever turn and we get faction conflict again, I am sure that these players will respect the wishes of the “peacemongers” and give them the time and the space that they want to roleplay peacefully with the opposite faction, without any IC attempt to enforce consequences or any OOC accusations of badrp.
There’s no need for “an eye for an eye” when it comes to dealing with consequences. If these people aren’t interested in dealing with any potential consequences for the actions of their characters because world-is-big-and-we-are-meaningless, then that’s okay. Let them roleplay in their bubbles.
There’s no point in trying to force people to roleplay what they don’t want to roleplay, so if they really are averse to the idea of someone’s character going “hey, I think you’re breaking the armistice, you shouldn’t do that,” then they don’t need to interact with those sorts of players at all.
Closest thing to it that I have seen is in that Ghostlands campaign I mentioned.
Dwarf from the Argent Crusade turned up and though he was spotted by the Horde, he was granted entry to the region under the assumption that he was going to join the troll-slaying campaign.
However, he was later caught providing healing to a dwarven guild that was participating in the RP-PvP, which led to him being cornered and confronted by the Horde, after which point he invoked his Crusade membership.
When questioned, he brought up his dilemma. He was bound by blood to aid his dwarven kin, but he was bound by his neutrality to not take part in the conflict.
Not willing to earn the ire of the Argent Crusade but not about to let him give any further aid to the treaty-breaking Alliance, the Horde who had found him proceeded to escort him out of the Ghostlands and bar him from re-entry, under threat of death.
… And it was honestly a fun little interaction that I very much enjoyed, with no eyerolling or sighing at the neutrals involved.
I can’t say that I’ve actually run into any IC interaction that revolves around the lambasting and chiding of warmongers since I came back to the RP scene in October '23, especially not at the site of the RP-PvP itself. It’s mostly just a bit of occasional OOC grumbling behind the scenes and on the forums.
I think you should be prepared for and accepting of people who point out just how novel and out of character this particular approach is, especially from pro-war roleplayers.
Even long after 8.2.5, there were attempts from pro-war communities to police where and how neutral characters were able to roleplay.
I recall one thread with thousands of posts in which the original poster refused to “just ignore” some neutral roleplayers having a party on a beach in Zuldazar and demanded that something should be done to outright stop those roleplayers and specifically argued against bubble RP.
In a little under two years, it seems like the perspective has changed to “Azeroth is big enough for everyone” and that bubble RP is now okay. So, I think you should be ready for some eyebrows to be raised at that, even if you were never a part of any community that was critical of neutral RP.
Hence I mentioned who this thread is intended for. I don’t mind dissenting opinions or scathing statements, but frankly I’ve read enough of them in either the PTR thread or any other where the topic of WAR came up.
People can post their theories, ideas about how this promotes bubble RP (It doesn’t) and anecdotal evidence to their hearts’ content and in a reasonable manner, but I’ll still stick to what I wrote in the OP in regards to who the post is meant for and what others will likely bring up.