The official text says the following:
Additionally, Blood Elves will have the option to choose from a variety of new skin colors and Void Elves will inherit the skin color options that are available to Blood Elves.
Looks like you’ll get full-fledged Blood Elves skin-customizations.
I don’t see a problem in the Alliance getting more than the Horde (for now). It’s not like the developers haven’t realized how horrible the player treatment constantly was.
Hmmm it does seem to suggest that, so that will probably be outcome.
It is unfair to Blood Elf players though in that all the customisation work being put into their race is to be shared with the Void Elves. It probably would have been better to share, say, the three skins in the preview. More than enough for the Void Elves to have those normal skin tones they craved while allowing the blood elves to have a far wider selection.
It’s also weird in that there are going to be over twice as many non void tones as void tones. People may have different ideas about the void elves being voidy, but this has to be a first in Blizzard offering customisations to people so that they can attempt to deny what they actually are.
Even a Dwarf with wildhammer tattoos isn’t going to be going around attempting to claim they aren’t a Dwarf.
You’ve got a fair point, it leaves us with the following options:
Personally I think the final option would be the most balanced for both factions as it means they both get something that’s a bit-different rather than 1 faction getting something entirely different (like Ogres) and the other faction only getting something only a bit-different (High Elves). But everyone will have a different preference and every option will rub some players the wrong way.
However, I think it’s worth pointing out:
So given the choice between a permanent problem and us being forced in this nightmare groundhog day on the forums of repeating the same arguments for High Elves for eternity - or just having a temporary annoyance people willl move on from, the temporary option sounds a million times better to me, and I bet a lot of people who aren’t High Elf fans would also prefer to end this tiresome debate.
Lore-wise you are correct that High Elves could have gold eyes from the holy cleansing of the Sunwell, but many Horde players get mad even at Alliance players getting something that’s always been part of the Alliance elves since vanilla (blue eyes), so they’re going to get really mad at Alliance players getting something that’s only ever been part of Horde elves (gold eyes).
Personally I wouldn’t mind the addition, but I know it would make adding High Elves far less likely becuase of the added controversy, so I’d rather not lower my chances of getting High Elves at all over that, particularly given that gold eyes aren’t even something most High Elf fans have asked for.
As for green eyes I’m not sure I agree that spending time on Outlands woud turn their eyes green, as if that were the case then other races in Outland would be the same, especially other Elves like Night Elves. If you’re right though, I’d still think it’d be a bad idea because of the same reasons I explained for Gold eyes, but these two reasons on top of that too:
I’m glad we agree on that. I understand that some Blood Elf players will feel it’s stealing from their uniqueness to give High Elves the same styles, so if that would stop me getting High Elves I’d be happy with seperate hairstyles from Blood Elves or even if they’re just un-voidy versions of the void elf hairstyles as a compromise.
Your Irish-Welsh voice is something that’s unusual for Blood Elves to have whilst High Elf fans are asking for a voice which is the opposite of unusual, because they’re asking for the voice that most High Elves would have lore-wise (not sure what that would be exactly in all honesty as currently the NPCs have a placeholder night elf voices in game, but it definitely wouldn’t sound voidy because regular High Elves are uncorrupted by the void). So I think it’s a false equivalance to say wanting your unusual accent choice is comparable to wanting the most common accent of the race.
I disagree. Every time I heard void audio I’d be reminded that I’m not a regular High Elf and that I’m just in denial to pretend otherwise, and every time I interact with voice emotes with other players they will hear me that way too. An MMO is a social genre so how others hear you is important too, especially on RP realms.
I think it does matter. First of all “because the actual race is void elf” - I know that, and that’s why I see it as another thing on the list for why fully-seperated High Elves would be preferable. You are right that suspension of disbelief is a thing, but it shouldn’t be necessary as High Elves are already well-established in the lore.
Well personally I think it was wrong that Wildhammers weren’t seperated too because I don’t see any reason why it would be a problem to do so. Whilst they are functionally the same as Bronzebeard Dwarves they are different in lore too. It seems completely arbitrary to me for Blizzard to give Dark Irons an AR slot and not Wildhammers. In an ideal game I think all races should have sub-options to pick from like this (I can’t add links, so remove the space before .co for the link to work):
i.ibb .co/b5wzt92/subrace-customization-mockup.jpg
I’m not demanding an entirely new questing zone/s, just spawning in a lore-appropriate zone/base (such as Quel’Danil lodge for High Elves and Aerie Peak for Wildhammers) and then have them hand in a single quest in Stormwind to officialise their entry into the Alliance. It would be very easy for Blizzard to do, so I don’t know why they don’t do this wherever possible. It’s not as if it’d be filling up too much of Blizzard’s time, and if the UI was changed to allow a second layer of options like image I linked, then Blizzard wouldn’t need to worry about the screen getting too full of options either.
Also wildhammers and high elves aren’t perfect analogies either because people a Bronzebeard Dwarf RPing as a Wildhammer would rarely be met with resistance of not being a “true wildhammer”, whereas a Void elf RPing as a High Elf would be met with resistance all the time due to the void looks, voice, racial etc.
First of all it wouldn’t look like a High Elf properly because it would have void-hair and glow purply occassionally in combat. Secondly I’d still be bothered by people saying I wasn’t a High Elf because I have my own doubts that it even counts in the first place, which they’d be reinforcing.
Unfortunately not all trolls are obvious though because they can pose as having genuine opinions.
Again I’d point out that they don’t look entirely like a High Elf and they don’t talk like a High Elf either. As for suspension of disbelief, I don’t see why that should be necessary.
The problem is and always was that these Void Elves shouldn’t have been made in the first place. People have been asking for the Alliance High Elves for over a decade and it’s just fair that the get them to play.
The developers shoehorned the Helves/Belves options into the velf-customization which they shouldn’t have done.
Most of this post is sensible, but I disagree with your binary “end the debate” choices.
You missed 3) blizzard could write the narrative to helf are undebatably eliminated through a combination if either joining belf, or velf, all of their prior names relinquished and copious lore statements to reinforce this fact. “Door shut” situation. This way “imperfect” Helf as velf is legitimised by the lore, and there is no longer any legitimate grounds to ask for “pure Helf” as they no longer exist.
At this point fans may continue to spam threads, but this would be different to other AR requests as blizzard would have definitively written Helf out of the lore consciously so as to consider their reintroduction implausible. Continuing to campaign for it at this point would purposeless trolling because of dislike of lore.
The current situation the campaigning is legit because the door is ajar.
I don’t wish to be pedantic though but these void elves with these tones are still going to be the same void elves as they are now, before the new customisations are added. They aren’t going to be ‘not’ void elves. They are going to have the same racials and the same emotes and the same jokes, all of which are based on them being Void Elves.
Now a Void Elf IS a high elf, I don’t think the tones are needed to prove that, that’s elf-evident, so playing a blue void elf is still the same as playing a high elf, and a pale skinned void elf is still as much a high elf as a blue void elf. But they are still void elves, that’s just a fact. They do still have that connection to the void that makes a void elf a void elf.
So it IS odd that a race with these emotes, these jokes and these racials is going to have more explicitly ‘non-void’ skins than ‘void skins’. Most people will take the non void options. That won’t make them not void elves, but it does dilute the void fantasy a little…and it does mean Blood Elf players get a bit screwed over.
I still think it would be a more equitable decision if the void elves didn’t get every single normal skin tone, but just three or four so that the majority of void elf options are, well, void elf and that Blood Elves retain a wider selection of choices which suits them. It’s not the likely outcome of course reading that preview, but it would be a better one all around in my opinion.
They are still velves, of course - but that’s not what the paying customers wanted in the first place. That the whole point here.
It’s just another classic Blizzard WoW-team compromise™ where they give you something but not what you wanted. We have the very same problem with the corruption vendor. They gave into the demand but only with the catch in having a weekly rotation attached to it. We have the very same situation with the helf-demand. People want them but the catch is that they still are velves.
They do - but this is just merely a setback for them.
To be fair, Blood elves (and Draenei) being screwed over since TBC is a standard thing. I would not be surprised if Telogrus Rift got an update before Silvermoon did. “But, the Void Elves, I mean High Elves, they need an update!” “What about Silvermoon, it has been fifteen freakin’ years and it isn’t even on the same game world map! It has a bloody loading screen!” “Yes, but…Don’t you understand? High Elves, we have to drop everything and cater to that” “No! Why not BOTH!” “We can’t do both! Thats silly, We need to give the Alliance an updated Allied Race!” “umm, Aren’t the Pandaren next in line for an update?” “We gave them Death Knight Skins, that’s enough! Stop interrupting me, I need to give Void Elves unique skins to allow them to play an unplayable race” "Oh, that sounds pretty cool, What are the Horde getting? “Nothing” Oh, that’s…not so good, what are the other Allied Races getting? “Nothing” Oh that’s really not so fair or good at all is it? "Just you wait, they will get this, and whinge about it, " Couldn’t you just have been fair to everyone instead? “Idiot, if we were fair to everyone and didn’t cater to loud pressure groups on the Alliance, then how could we prioritise Alliance customisation whilst ignoring Horde ones?” Umm, Isn’t that the opposite of the word Bias? “Be silent, here is the new dictionary explaining that Bias is anything that is good for Horde, or even mildly miffing for Alliance, whereas all that is good for the Alliance is fine and well”
So, sort of like Giving an Alliance Allied Race massive customisation before you paid the same attention to longer existing player races or any Horde Allied Race?
“That’s right kids, and that’s Why being Alliance is Good!”
Crowd screams in excitement…
They are still Velves, but ones that can be customised to look very close to a Blood Elf. I wonder if this will turn out to be a monkey paw over time. Perhaps Blizzard gave in on skin tone because they plan to use every possible customisation option going forward to remphasise the void theme. You could keep that really close to a blood elf look, but to do so you’ll have to forego most of the other options Void Elves will get.
TBH I really hope they do emphasise it going forward because it’s probably the most interesting take thalassians have at current. No other race has this niche in “here’s big had force 01 but you see the other side of it” exploring the void through that premise is interesting. Locus walkers take is interesting and you lose one of the angles on that if you stop pushing the void elf theme proper.
Blood elves lost their bite once their narrative changed them from desperate naaru tapping people’s trying to reassert themselves in a world that forgot them. They have it left, in trace amounts, but it’s a bit meh. Now they’re largely high elves that disagree with other high elves because of politics.
Others may disagree as is their right of course. I just don’t find the “spellcasting civilised elves with archers” trope that interesting. It’s done to death and we have it continually chucked at us with the constant reminders of nelf history every expo it seems.
If they cut off the velfs one USP to focus on the thing they have in common with other elf races, I think it’s a shame tbh. That’s just me. Hopefully they won’t forget velves were blue and spacey first.
I would agree with this. Personally I find Blood Elves to be a more than adequate take on the traditional high elf fantasy. They’re magical, have paladins and have the whole blonde haired and even blue eyed thing going for them.
Void Elves though WERE genuinely intriguing with their unique take on what an elf was, a void based high elf rather than a light based high elf (which is what the blood elves are now).
Which was I still hope, even if that hope is a forlorn one, that Void Elves won’t be getting all the blood elf skin tones. I know it’s written that way, I expect it to go that way, but not only is it unfair to Blood Elf players but it’s not very good for the Void Elves either.
I mean, with a choice of fourteen ‘ordinary’ skin tones and six void tones, human nature being human nature means the non void skins will be taken far more often.
But there are other customisations coming in the future for Void Elves. I would hope Blizzard uses those options to double down on the Void Elf theme. Those who want to approximate a high elf using a Void Elf should still be able too, but I am unsure if future customisation choices will explicitly support that.
I’m sure we’re getting a complete Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdom overhaul after Shadowlands where you guys are finally on the same server as we are.
(btw, start collecting the old transmog just to make sure you won’t miss anything out)
To be fair, the Helf-issue is over a decade old. You could argue that they finally took care of it.
That’s the point of the update.
And this is what the Alliance-players wanted for over 10 years. Just let have them this. Well, not the Paladins but the customizations.
Well they have it, but there are drawbacks to this decision. This wasn’t ‘not’ done out of spite after all, there were genuine misgivings. In fact, reading some of the other posts here on this forum and in the US forums, I see things like ‘allow void elves to turn off entropic embrace’ or ‘give void elves blood elf hair colours’ or ‘void elf paladins should be a thing’. Blood Elves are seemingly now to be seen as a gigantic a lá carté menu, with Void Elf players perusing Blood Elf options such as their hairstyles, class options, jewellery and hair colours and saying ‘all we need now is this, and this, and this, and then it will be perfectly fair’.
The goal of many of these request is not for genuine void elf customisation, it’s seemingly to ask for Blizzard’s connivance in denying that the Void Elf is in fact a void elf, which I find deeply weird. A void elf is a high elf, but a different kind of high elf. That should have been respected in my opinion, it hasn’t been, but the void elf nature remains, a different kind of high elf.
Again, this is why I hope that the void elves won’t be getting all the skin tones belonging to Blood Elves, although I understand it is almost certainly going to be that way. I believe this is a bad outcome for both Blood Elf and void elf races, and a much better approach would have been to give Void Elves a handful of the skins rather than all of them, as all of them is basically every blood elf option and all of them dwarfs the voidy void elf options. Two or three would have been sufficient I think.
That’s true but I don’t really consider that to be a possibility because as much as I may be disappointed or even angry with some of Blizzard’s decisions to make High Elves less significant, I’ve seen plenty of evidence that they want High Elves to stay around because they’re still consistently included in exansions alongside the Alliance, often with their own storylines too.
I could be wrong but the way I see it I think one thing Blizzard takes pride is their ability to turn expectations on their heads in an interesting way, e.g:
So I don’t think Blizzard would ever get rid of High Elves as they just find High Elves to be too typical and limited in scope to put much focus on. Their original solution to this was to create Void Elves as a way to have playable Alliance Thalassians with more of a twist they can play with - but what might seem more interesting narratively isn’t necessarily what people prefer to play. Many people simply like the typical fantasy-staple roles which High Elf would provide and I don’t think that should be a problem.
What do you guys think about this posting from the US forums?
It’s the thread I was on about earlier. I find it a bit of a reach. Does Blizzard really want to open this particular can of worms, because if you begin allowing racial customisation for one, EVERYONE will want it.
It also defeats the point of it being a racial, a common ability shared by everyone of the race.
Depends on the case, tbh. This one is for sure an unique and special one.
As far as I can read from it, people simply want to disable the graphical effect from the racial which is actually reasonable to ask if they deny them pure high elves.
Rofl. There’s literally no precedent for anything even remotely similar to what they are suggesting in that post.
Take note Blizz. Their masks are firmly off now and their agenda laid bare for all to see.
No, I have to disagree it’s a reasonable ask. It is moving from approximating a high elf to looking for helping denying what they are, which is a void elf. Void Elves are high elves, a different kind of high elf sure, but they are high elves. How far should they go in helping Void Elves denying they are void elves? What would be next?
Would be nice if you for once in all your time posting on the different threads on this topic didn’t paint every single one who likes High Elves as the few fanatics you see…
The vast majority of the ones opposed to more Helf/Velf customization are perfectly capable of realizing that the ones who like High Elves or want more Void Elf customization aren’t one big homogeneous blob of organic matter, why can’t you?
There’s no “masks firmly off”…
There’s a lot of people being content with the change.
Some asking for minor things such as jet-black or snow-white hair colors or simply removal of the “void tentacles” with normal skin tones.
Some asking for a bit more with all Blood Elf hair colors.
A few asking for even more with all the Blood Elf hair styles.
A small handful asking for Paladins, new racials/altered racials, voices, High Elves as a new allied race etc etc.
And an extremely small number asking for god damn Silvermoon City and/or removal of Blood Elves from the Horde.
You are doing your very best on these forums attempting to create an “Us vs Them” scenario. Which makes no sense when the people you dislike can’t even agree on what they want. They aren’t even unified enough to make a “them”.
Those who want High Elves don’t want more customization for Void Elves for example, because to them every thing they give to the Void Elves that make them look less “blue” is another nail in the coffin of the concept of the “High Elven Allied Race”.