It really depends on personal preference and which is stronger, and it also depends on the kind of content, what is good in raiding might not be good in Mythic and/or PvP. You have Shaman and Druid as an example of that.
That’s a very idealistic approach. History clearly shows that the ranged specs are always preferable just because they are much more convenient. Feral has to severely outperform Balance for you to be “allowed” to play it in competitive content. Of course there are special cases but the general rule is clear. Melee specs usually have to bring something “special” to be accepted into the raiding meta. Hence why Rogue is pretty much a “dead weight” class in raiding right now.
So you are restricting your argument to raiding? You know that’s not the only content in the game, right? Some people, like me, don’t even care about it.
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Yes but that’s also why it was MY argument and I specifically mentioned “competitive content”. See below for reference.
If Rogue got a ranged spec I would most likely be forced to play it in raiding so it would impact me.
So Mythic and PvP do not have competitive content?
I agree. Change that to competitive raiding. But with the new affixes I would also be inclined to add M+ to the argument. And to be fair, the pvp community is a minority.
But the thing is, altho you might be right about raiding, there is more to the game than that, and things are different in different contents, SV is great in PvP, sure BM saw some revival with the buffs, and considiring the ridiculous fact that it can deal damage even without LoS because the pets are doing the job while the hunter can hide behind a wall. However, SV has been the best Hunter spec for PvP for a long time, and it isn’t ranged. So you can’t say ranged specs are always preferable, Enh Shammy has also been a good PvP spec, same goes for Feral.
Mate I just said “change that to competitive raiding”. See correction below to clarify.
Frankly I don’t care about PvP. But it’s still my argument. You don’t have to agree with it. The best argument is still that the majority of players want Survival to be ranged.
I know you did, what I am trying to tell is that doesn’t matter, not completely, because there are other types of content where being ranged isn’t as important. The game is much bigger than raiding, that’s what I am trying to explain to you. Using only 1 part of the game as an argument against a spec, which can be used in any kind of content, is not a good argument. It might be bad for raiding, but it is good for other stuff, no spec in the game is top tier in all kinds of content unless it is broken.
But why are you trying to explain that to me? I never disputed it. And I already corrected my self to say “competitive raiding” which clearly indicates that I recognize other game modes are in the game. What more do you want from me?
I still keep my argument that for why I think it’s bad to mix melee and ranged specs in one class. But you have to understand that it’s just an opinion. This is not a factual argument.
Ok, sure fair enough. Then I guess there is nothing more for either of us to tell eachother in this subject. See you around. 
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We’re all as relevant as each other and the fact you think otherwise, in itself, makes you less relevant. MSV is here to stay, quit crying like a petulant child and get over it.
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it will remain a meme spec but as it seems this is what people want, the 3 % playing it and 3 posters here
to do quests in SL, fits pretty well
Great insight show from you. Show you really know a lot about the spec.
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"lal " … go go go you have 10 lvl to up with quests.
thank you i will use sv for that
nah not really ‘LAL’
Careful you can love it and don’t want to be a pewpew hunt master anymore. warning you ^^
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Sigh, sometimes I am glad that Blizzard pretty much completely ignores EU and only cares for what the NA forum says.
I mean… It is absolutely amazing to see people argue “if you want ranged DPS, you got two specs to choose from.” Sure. Meanwhile, if you want to play melee, you got no less than TWELVE other classes/specs to choose from. How can you guys not realize how insanely stupid this argument is? Do you realize how unfair you are?
I don’t blame people for liking current survival - and I don’t want it taken away from you. Just like I didn’t want my favorite spec taken away from me - I mained hunter from vanilla until Legion. Ever since somewhere in cata or MoP survival became my favorite spec of all time… Until I rerolled at the end of Legion because my favorite spec disappeared for no valid reason whatsoever. Ever since, I have been trying to get into it every now and then - but I can’t. I don’t want to play as a sharpshooter nor do I want to play as Beastmaster (ESPECIALLY not with their current rotations). I am alright playing as melee but, from a raiding perspective - I will never really be allowed to. My guild would never be okay with a class that can be ranged going melee when melee spots are so valuable - not as long as I’d be taking the spot from a DK with grips or monks/DHs/warriors with raid buffs and debuffs.
RSV was the only thing WoW had that was remotely close to the Arcane Archer (DnD) which is my favorite thing in the entire world - and it even mixed it so insanely well with the Ranger theme (not to be mistaken for Hunter theme) that I also adore so well. I loved everything about ranged survival hunters - especially when we could play with the munition tree. I have never played WoW as much as I did in WoD when munition spec where the thing for SV (in PvP, I didn’t raid that particular expansion).
Ever since Legion I have struggled really hard at doing anything in this game. I want to play, but I don’t feel like playing anything. There is literally NOTHING in this game that resembles the ranged survival spec, neither in class fantasy nor playstyle.
I don’t want the MSV spec taken away from those who like it. I would never ask Blizzard for that. But nor did I and many others, want our spec taken from us just because “some people” thought it didn’t fit well into WoW. We were LITERALLY in the same position as you MSV-fans are in right now - using the same arguments about how those who wanted melee could play anything else etc… Only difference is that we were eventually ignored and they threw the spec that we loved under the bus. It feels really unfair to see the same arguments being used to keep us from getting “our” spec back when those words meant nothing coming from us.
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It’s sad how the discussion always defaults to the debate of ‘ranged vs. melee’. It has never been about that, about how it has to be either-or…
We CAN get RSV back as a stand-alone option without it requiring the removal of another already existing spec, even partially.
I revisited my old topic which I posted back in early 2019(link below), made some adjustments, added some new things.
Copy-paste here:
As per what the above says, this concept contains ideas for what a modern version of what was the Survival spec up until the end of WoD, what it could look like, preferably as a 4th spec. Having continuously played that spec from the end of WotLK up until the end of WoD when it was removed, it’s safe to say that in terms of classes/specs, this one was a passion of mine.
Anyone who’s been here a while will recognize the concept from what I’ve talked about before, including the original post which I created back in early 2019 This one. Although some things have been changed to make it fit better with more general philosophies of class design in Shadowlands.
My goal is once again to work towards a concept which could fit in the modern game but one that still has strong references to what so many players besides myself enjoyed playing, and may still miss that it’s not here anymore.
Anyway, time to get into the specifics! As usual, any numbers mentioned are only here to provide further depth to the concept and are ofc subject to change.
Core Abilities
[Cobra Shot] - Instant cast
A quick shot causing X Physical damage.
Generates 7 Focus.
[Explosive Shot] - 20 Focus - Instant cast - 10 sec recharge - 2 charges
Fire an explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing Fire damage. The charge will blast the target every second for an additional 4 sec.
[Black Arrow] - 30 Focus - Instant cast - 30 sec cooldown
Fire a shot infused with dark energy at the target, dealing Shadow damage over 12 sec.
The periodic damage-effect applied by Black Arrow can be stacked up to 3 times on the same enemy.
[Serpent Sting] - 15 Focus - Instant cast
Fire a shot that poisons your target, causing them to take Nature damage over 15 sec.
[Arcane Shot] - 20 Focus - Instant cast
A quick shot that causes X Arcane damage.
[Multi-Shot] - 40 Focus - Instant cast
Fires several missiles, hitting up to 5 targets within 8 yards of your current target for X Physical damage.
Multi-Shot applies Serpent Sting to all targets hit.
[Immolation Trap] - Instant cast - 1 minute cooldown
Hurls a fire trap to the target location that will burn the first enemy to approach for X Fire damage over 20 sec. Trap will exist for 1 min.
Class-wide abilities
[Kill Shot] - 10 Focus - Instant cast - 10 sec recharge - 1 Charge
You attempt to finish off a wounded target, dealing X Physical damage.
Only usable on enemies with less than 20% health.
Major Cooldown
[Munition Tactics] - 20 sec duration - 2 minute cooldown.
Increases your haste by X% and instantly triggers Lock & Load(Passive). When Explosive Shot is used during Munition Tactics, this resets the remaining cooldown of Black Arrow.
Any time Explosive Shot deals damage to a target affected by Black Arrow, during Munition Tactics, this will cause the periodic damage effect applied by Black Arrow to spread to nearby enemies as well.
(This effect is replaced by a different passive effect when engaged in instanced PvP; If your Black Arrow is at any time dispelled or otherwise removed from an enemy target, this instantly resets the remaining cooldown of Black Arrow.)
Mastery
[Mastery Bonus: Toxicology] - Increases all non-physical damage dealt by X%, based on Mastery.
Passive Effects
[Lone Wolf] - Increases your damage by 10% when you do not have an active pet.
[Lock and Load] - Periodic damage dealt by Black Arrow and Immolation Trap have a chance to cause your next Explosive Shot to cost no Focus and trigger no cooldown.
[Trap Mastery] - Tar Trap now slows approaching enemies by an additional X%, and the effect sticks to the enemy for 3 seconds after they have left the tar.
The trigger radius as well as the radius of the effect on your Tar Trap is increased by 25%.
Freezing Trap can now be triggered manually by the hunter once placed, causing it to form a fragile Ice Block that you can stand behind to protect yourself from frontal attacks until shattered. The ice block shatters after 8 seconds or once it has sustained enough damage.
Manually triggering it requires you to stand in close vicinity to the trap.
[Serpent’s Focus] - Using Cobra Shot several times in a row will increase the amount of Focus generated by each shot by 4. Stacking up to 3 times.
[Serpent Spread] - Targets hit by Multi-Shot are also afflicted by Serpent Sting equal to 9 sec of it’s duration.
[Exotic Munitions] - Your Auto Attacks have a chance to increase the remaining duration of either Serpent Sting, Black Arrow or Immolation Trap by 5 seconds, on an enemy affected by either of these periodic damage effects.
Utility/defensives
Includes all other abilities, such as [Tar Trap][Frost Trap][Aspect of the Turtle][Concussive Shot][Counter Shot][Tranquilizing Shot][Misdirection][Pet Utility][Exhilaration][Disengage][Feign Death], and more.
Note that I would prefer if(on a class-wide basis)
[Posthaste] - becomes a baseline effect.
[Master’s Call] - becomes a baseline ability again.
[Pet Specializations] - Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning, if they were changeable again.
[Revive Pet] - Cast time brought down to 2 seconds again.
[Camouflage] - becomes a baseline ability again.
Talents
– Level 15 –
[Ever Burning] - If you fire Explosive Shot into an enemy already affected by a previous charge, the remaining duration of the previous charge is refreshed as well as increased by an additional 3 seconds.
An active charge can only have a max duration of 9 seconds.
Exotic Munition-procs now also increases the remaining duration of any active Explosive Shot charges you have on the current target by 3 seconds.
[Noxious Stings] - Increases the periodic critical damage of your Explosive Shot, Serpent Sting, and Black Arrow by 25%, and Serpent Sting now deals increased damage against targets below 30% health.
[Fusion Shot] - (Replaces Cobra Shot) - 1.5s cast time(castable while moving) - 6 sec recharge - 2 Charges
Fire a charged shot into the target, dealing Physical damage, triggering a volatile fusion when your next ability that deals periodic damage hits, causing it to erupt dealing additional instant damage equal to 40% of it’s total duration.The target will take additional damage of the same type as the ability used to trigger the fusion for the next 12 sec.
Generates 25 Focus.
– Level 25 –
[Death Adder] - Serpent Sting also does instant damage equal to 30% of it’s total periodic effect. Also applies to Serpent Spread(Passive).
Every time Serpent Sting deals damage, you have a chance to gain 3 Focus.
If the passive effect “Exotic Munitions” procs while your Serpent Sting is active on the target, this also triggers the Death Adder-effect.
[Predator] - Casting Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, and Serpent Sting reduces the Focus cost and increases the damage of your next Arcane Shot by 30%. This effect stacks.
[Viper Venom] - Whenever Serpent Sting deals damage, there’s a chance that this can cause any other periodic damage effects you have applied to the target to instantly deal damage equal to one tick of their total effect.
If this proc occurs when the target is affected by Black Arrow, this will instantly refresh it’s remaining duration and restore 8 Focus back to you.
– Level 30 –
[Trailblazer] - [Natural Mending]
[Bestial Dicipline] - (Replaces Camouflage as a talent choice) - While your pet is active, you and your pet(s) regenerate X% of total health every 3 sec. Healing done to you and your pet(s) is increased by X%.
Damage taken by your pet(s) is reduced by 15%.
When Lone Wolf(Passive) is active, you continue to heal for the same amount of health.
– Level 35 –
[Cluster Shot] - 25 Focus - Instant cast - 15 sec cooldown.
Fire a shot which explodes on impact, instantly dealing Physical damage to the primary target and all other nearby enemies, and causing them to bleed for an additional X Physical damage over 3 sec.Explosive Shot-charges which are still active on any target(s) hit by Cluster Shot will instantly erupt, dealing all remaining damage to the affected target(s) at once.
[Wildfire] - 8 sec duration
The periodic damage effect applied by Immolation Trap will now spread to any enemy standing in close range to an already burning target. As long as an enemy is within range of another enemy affected by Wildfire or Immolation Trap, the Wildfire will continue to spread.
[T.N.T.] - Explosive Shot now deals damage to all enemies near the affected target.
– Level 40 –
[Born to be Wild] - [Binding Shot]
[Adaption] - (Replaces Posthaste as a talent choice) Getting hit with an incapacitating effect(Stun/Fear), reduces the remaining cooldown of your Aspect of the Turtle by 30%. This effect has an internal cooldown of X sec.
Aspect of the Turtle is now usable when incapacitated.
When rooted or slowed, the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Cheetah is reduced by 15 seconds. Aspect of the Cheetah frees you from movement impairing effects and you cannot be slowed below 100% movement speed while it’s active.
– Level 45 –
[Spitting Cobra] - Cobra Shot now deals an additional X% damage as Nature damage and extends the remaining duration of Serpent Sting on the enemy target by X sec.
Cobra Shot now has a high chance of generating double Focus when fired.
[Pre-Heat] - The cooldown of Immolation Trap is reduced by 5 seconds every time Immolation Trap deals critical damage to the enemy target. In addition, if an enemy target dies while affected by Immolation Trap, it’s cooldown is reset.
[Intoxication] - Your ranged Auto Attacks have a chance to grant you 2 stacks of Intoxication. When Black Arrow is refreshed or when it expires from an enemy, you gain this effect as well.
- Intoxication
When you use an ability that deals instant damage, it has a 100% chance to be a critical strike.
When you use an ability that deals periodic damage, damage caused by this ability is increased by an additional X%.
– Level 50 –
[Rapid Recuperation] - Damage caused by Explosive Shot have a chance to reduce the remaining cooldown of Munition Tactics by 1 sec.
Whenever Lock & Load procs, this causes the next Explosive Shot fired to have a 100% chance for each of it’s ticks to reduce the remaining cooldown of Munition Tactics by 1 sec.
Catalysis - Duration 10 sec.
Black Arrow increases any Fire-damage you deal to an enemy by X%.In addition, Explosive Shot-charges granted by Lock & Load extend the remaining duration of Black Arrow by 1 second every time they deal damage to the affected target.
[Resourcefulness] - Reduces the cooldown of all traps and Black Arrow by 20%. Your Freezing Trap and Tar Trap both have a 100% chance to proc Lock & Load when triggered.
Freezing Trap when triggered manually can now withstand 100% more damage before shattering.
When an enemy breaks free from your Freezing Trap, they will take an additional 10% damage from all sources for the next X seconds.
Critical damage dealt by Immolation Trap is increased by X%.
Bonus effects/Bonus Traits
Got no good names for these traits/bonuses yet but…just wanted to add in some potential fun bonus effects that are spec specific. They can be tied to things such as Set Bonuses or something similar to Artifact Traits/Azerite Traits of the past.
(1) Lock and Load now grants 2 charges of Explosive Shot when it procs, instead of 1.
(2) When you get a Exotic Munitions-proc. It will grant you an additional bonus effect depending on which periodic damage-effect it benefits.
Serpent Sting - Until the current Serpent Sting debuff expires or is refreshed, every time it deals damage to the target, you instantly gain 3 Focus.
Black Arrow - The remaining cooldown of Black Arrow is instantly reset.
Immolation Trap - Your next Immolation Trap will deal an extra X% damage and will also have an increased X% chance to critically hit the affected target.
(3) Arcane Shot now triggers the passive effect “Exotic Munitions” when it hits an enemy target.
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