Yeah there must be something - as you said the numbers don’t lie. But the course hasn’t changed - so there must be something which we can’t see which fuels this.
And it could be as simple as large parts of the casual player sticking with it through thick and thin… who knows
People that do harder content are those that play the game the most and they are less likely to quit.
A casual plays every now and then and quits when he’s bored.
People in raiding guilds/m+ teams will play for most of the patch.
I think stats can be misleading too.
I think most of the active playerbase raids or does m+.
Maybe not at a level where they get the achievements but they still enjoy the content.
Those that don’t most likely just quit early on.
The playerbase that just does open world content by choice is defenetly not the majority.
I’d challenge this, absolutely.
Many, many raiders in SL have “quit” this patch until 9.1, same for many M+ runners who now are logging in maybe an hour or less a week to just get a vault and logout.
People only interested in the ilevel/raid/m+ level, only log in so long as it’s a goal. Once it’s met, they’re done.
Conversely people interested in the open world, usually are less specifically goal-oriented and capable of finding “stuff to do” and “wasting their own time” in a way where they’re still enjoying themselves.
You also have RPers (the ultimate casuals) whom tend to stay subbed for the entire patch, because their content of choice has nothing to do with goals or patches at all, it’s totally on their terms and a reliable activity to do whenever they have “met goals”.
So I would argue the opposite is true in fact. It is those who mare driven by a strict goal (such as curve, CE, KSM) whom tend to stop logging in once they’re down, whereas altoholics and stuff, casuals, so long as something about the content “chimes” with them they tend to keep logging in more consistently, even if they’re not really doing much when logged in.
They’ve already spent the time and resources making the dungeons and raids so it’s not like it’s taking away anything to have different difficulties.
I would love to see player housing but so far Blizzard have failed to deliver. Garrisons were awful. Had very little customisation and weren’t a home in any way.
Of course most quit now since the patch is so long.
But most guilds take months to achieve their goals. Same for m+ teams.
Lot of guilds are still progressing for late CE.
Personally all the casual/social players I know quit in the first 2 months of the patch, while all the raiders kept playing till the last month.
And those that still play right know are m+ players that log on for keys.
Once a casual is done with the story and got to max level they quit, unless they start raiding or doing dungeons.
Rpers, transmog hunters and gold hoarding goblins are an extremely niche part of the playerbase.
There is simply not much to do in wow aside from instanced content.
To get a new gen they would have to do what " boomers" don’t want. Make it free to play. With a heavy store front.
You sure? Seemed different to me, as you were questioning things I’ve answered in the post you were replying to.
Nowhere did I imply they were incorrect. I just said they were mindlessly repeating what content creators, in this case Preach, told them was the truth, without truly having any opinion on the topic, other than what their holy preacher told them.
Without thought. Mindlessly. It’s repeating statements without knowing if they’re true or not, at least in my opinion, which is quite fitting.
It makes just as much sense. My context is simply, do not mindlessly repeat statements that influencers say. Which they did.
If you feel it’s obnoxious, then only because you’re the kind of person who mindlessly repeats what influencers tell you to repeat.
You said, and I quote
This sentence phrases the statement “MoP […] had some of the best raids in the game” as a fact.
I understand, phrasing is difficult, especially if you’re a non native speaker, so it might not have been your intention, but the way you’ve put it, is that “MoP had some of the best raids in the game” while you personally have no experience about it.
And that’s exactly my issue with your statement.
It’s taking statements from a random youtuber, in this case one who quite often makes statements that are at best opinions and at worst factually wrong, and then stamps them as facts, and continuing to spread said statements, or opinions, masking them as facts.
In that case, your intention was to claim it is a “general view” but in the end what you said was “MoP had some of the best raids” without ever experiencing them yourself, because people on the internet told you they were.
I understand, it wasn’t your intent, and that’s fine and dandy and all, but the way you’ve phrased it didn’t sound like “most people say they were some of the best raids over there in MoP”, but more like “MoP has had some of the best raids. Preach said so!”
Oh, so this isn’t implying that they’re incorrect?
In the second quote you’re practically saying “People like you are incorrect.”
No, they didn’t. If they mindlessly repeated it they wouldn’t have said “(From what I see in Preach videos, etc).” They’d simply have left that information out.
You’re just trying to big yourself up when you and the “mindless people” have the same conclusion. 
Before you ask why, you need to validate the question.
Is it really true that very few people are doing “end content”?
Does “end content” really take so much resource?
For the first question:
I don’t trust 3rd party websites with the numbers. But according to wow progress, 20K guilds have completed Castle Nathria heroic. With an average of 20 players per guild, that’s 400K players. This doesn’t include pugs and boosted players (I think). 13K guilds have killed at least one Mythic boss.
According to rio website, 4.7M+ characters (not players) have completed at least one M+ run this season. Which is endgame content.
For the second question:
Does Mythic Castle Nathria require much more resources than LFR, Normal or Heroic? The graphics, the music, the story, dungeon layout, trash, the voice acting, and most of the mechanics are the same. Higher difficulties may have 1 or 2 extra mechanics, The rest is just numbers tuning. In very rare cases a boss may have an extra Mythic only phase which may require more graphics or voice acting work.
For example does a Mythic+11 or a Mythic+25 dungeon which has exactly same bosses, mechanics, trash, affixes like a Mythic+10 require so much extra resources? The answer is NO. It is just number. There isn’t even a tuning. It’s just a multiplier. All tuning is based on Mythic 0 difficulty. Dungeon layout, voice acting, story line, graphics, bosses and trash 3D models, etc are exactly the same as normal version of the dungeon.
Does 1200 arena or rbg rating require extra resources than 3K arena rating? The answer is also no. It’s exactly the same game, same classes, everything is the same.
I’m posting on a video game forum not writing for Encyclopedia Britannica. Everything everyone everywhere writes on a video game forum is opinion.
Do we need to start every post with IMHO,
No it’s not.
No I’m saying “people like you are the ones who mindlessly follow whatever influencers say, and more often than not get bitten due to that”
No they did. I mean I’m glad they added that information, because it shows that they do not actually know what they’re talking about, but in the end, they said “MoP has had some of the best raids ever” without ever experiencing any of them themselves.
Nah, I’m pointing out people who mindlessly regurgitate what content creators say. You’re trying to be obnoxious, using your very own words here. Not sure why, perhaps it’s because I’ve called out Preach, who people, for some reason, still hold in high regards?
I mean yeah, technically everything is an opinion, but that doesn’t mean people mean everything they say an an opinion. Quite the opposite in fact. I believe a fair bit of posts do imply that whatever the poster believes to be a fact, rather than an opinion, even if it is an opinion.
So while you’re not wrong about everything being an opinion, that doesn’t mean that everybody who writes something is aware of that fact and believes their statement to be an opinion, as opposed to a fact.
Depends. I personally believe it’s kind of important to distinguish between personal beliefs, opinions and other things. I wouldn’t say “Ulduar was the best raid ever”, I’d rather say “I liked Ulduar of all raids the most.”
At the same time I would also not say “Trial of the Grand Crusader’s concept of no trash was awesome”, but rather “I enjoyed Trial of the Grand Crusader not having trash.”
And especially if you’re paraphrasing something somebody else said, that you personally know nothing about.
Does it really matter what the writer believes? Surely it’s up to the reader to be aware that everything on a video game forum is opinion and to treat everything they read as such.
Well, I did qualify my comment with “Some of the Best”, that could mean in the top 50% of raids…
I mean I believe it does?
As you’ve perhaps noticed, it’s not about whether or not I’d agree with your statement, it’s about you repeating what some youtuber told you, without having any knowledge about the topic, other than what said youtuber told you.
Please refrain from breaking the forums code of conduct, even if you’re hiding on a level 10 alt, you will get suspensions if you do.
We hated titanforging because it raised the bar with raid loot.
Sure, you got the staff from mythic Azshara, it’s BiS, great, waited ages for this!
…except the other guy got his with a socket and +20 ilvls, and now here you are with your stupid plain standard staff of naffness.
Randomly rewarding 5% of players above the other 95% was never a very fair way to go about it. Valor would be much better, if it wasn’t tied to KSM, and there were a couple of WQs every day that gave 25 valor each.
Because Blizzard would like players to play the tougher group content. Their vision for the game is that it’s a difficulty ladder. That many people are playing WoW differently isn’t necessarily something Blizzard should change for. Arguably those players should be in FF14.
Also, don’t kid yourself. If they took away mythic raids, we wouldn’t get anything extra in return, we’d just lose a bunch of hardcore players and youtubers and active subs.
Personally, I think we have 1 too many raid difficulties; normal could go. LFR should be somewhere between it’s current level and normal. Heroic and mythic should remain. Heroic keeps many, many people happy for 5-6 months every season, and mythic is there for those who like a real challenge.
Not saying that Blizzard shouldn’t listen to what players want and add more of it - I absolutely think they should! I’d love better professions, with endgame crafting using endgame materials, to make items that are good for the rest of the tier (I miss you, alchemist’s stone…)
But we shouldn’t look at it as “well take this away and give us that instead”. There’s no need. Blizzard are a multi multi multi million dollar company. They can and should deliver all of these things. It’s not on us to budget on their behalf.
Imagine how much more players would play WoW if Blizzard didn’t balance fun out of the game, and not gate best items behind content that only small fraction will achieve.
Do we realy have to gate legendary items behind weekly resets just because top 10 guilds would clear raids a bit faster ?
I can’t upvote this enough!!! Loot was no longer rewarding. Even if you got something it could be a bitter disappointment.
meh. some of my thinking is informed by videos, forums or chatting with friends. Some of it is personal experience. I don’t “mindlessly” (as you put it) regurgitate anything. I watch several youtubers and agree with some, disagree with some. Taliessen & Evitel are amusing although somewhat too positive / unwilling to criticise, Preach is too Raid focused so I’ve only seen a few of his, Bellular has a similar opinion to myself but he would get rid of LFR which I think would be a mistake.
My opinion is not tainted by evil youtubers to a point where I am unable to post on a topic even if I haven’t achieved the heights of everyone else in that specific area.
I’m sure people are loving this discussion, probably as much as doing WQs in Revendreth…
That’s a very different statement than
In the end what it comes down to is how you phrase things.
You yourself said you had no MoP experience, so none of that statement is personal.
And that’s the point I’m criticising.
If you don’t understand, or accept, how making statements based on nothing but the words of others can lead to issues, that’s fine, I’ve genuinely tried to bring my point across, several times and I’ll keep saying, do not form your opinions based on content creators, form it based on personal experience.
But hey, given the fact that either you, or some other person has called their forum alt, named after a somewhat infamous WoW player who’s been suspended from guilds for making sexist statements, to insult me, I feel like this is leading nowhere, but towards a downwards spiral.
If the issue you’ve had was with the adjective “mindlessly” then I’ll rephrase it to
“Do not repeat statements content creators have told you, without having created an opinion on your own.”
Anyway, that’s all I’ll say towards the topic, cheers.
Now who’s stating something as fact which is not even opinion is outright untrue. I played all of MOP and enjoyed it immensely. I did the Raids on LFR though.