Real problems of Shadowlands and previous expansions

Community General Discussion
19

Real problems of Shadowlands and previous expansions
This review kinda sheds light on whats happened to WoW and why

TLDR from a WoW review from Patrick J. Colliano:

Ion Hazzikostas, the current Game Director of Blizzard’s World of Warcraft, is, simply put, the worst thing that ever happened to World of Warcraft.

During his disastrous tenure, he has overseen the worst changes of all, and the game has changed from an enjoyable pastime to something like a disagreeable job.

I don’t know what motivates his decisions — perhaps the team he oversees is a mere skeleton crew compared to the team of developers of Warcraft’s heyday during Wrath of the Lich King expansion — but what characterizes his tenure as Game Director is transparent attempts to make progress as time-consuming as possible. The more speed bumps he can place in the way of the players, the more time they spend on it. Consequently, the less content his team needs to create.

*And once you realize his motivations, the stumbling blocks become obvious, running from the relatively trivial details to the major aspects of the game. His favorite tactic appears to be making travel a much more demanding task. Compare the exploration of Arathi Highlands, for instance, to trying to navigate Argus.
These aspects of the game, which can only be described as being sabotaged under Ion’s inept direction, simply work to make the minor aspects of the game more time-consuming. The more time players spending on farming materials and traveling, the less time the players have to quest, do dungeons, battlegrounds and raids. Therefore, the less content Ion’s team has to create to keep the players entertained.

Paradoxically, it seems that Ion works hardest to avoid working. Inflicting stalling tactics on the players seems to be the MO.

8 Likes
20

This one is even more brutal than mine but I feel similarly about it.

I’m not sure if the team is smaller than in Wrath. I heard that Legion and BFA had the biggest amount of devs assigned to the expansions ever. I think that devs just put effort and resources into these systems ans things that aren’t really attractive for players then trying to fix them and make them work.

Look at BFA. Because they spent whole 8.1 fixing azerite armors then 8.2 on essences and then 8.3 on corruptions Nyalotha raid looks rushed and made in a hurry. Raid ending cinematic just sums it up.

1 Like
21

That review is from BFA and its got a lot worse since then, progressively worse each expansion Ion as been lead on.

Staff as shrunk a lot too, thats common knowledge, BUT Ion is lead, they do what they are told to do, HE makes the final decisions.

2 Likes
22

In the end SL made record sales and all AAA companies nowadays are oriented around short term income. They would spend a bit on advertising to convince people to try the game and then quit. Subs probably aren’t that big part of the income anyway. It’s easier to hire few graphics and someone to code a new mount model for ingame store than make devs fix the gameplay problems. Since Cyberpunk 2077 release I Iost hope into gaming industry. They don’t care about the client but only about the short term income.

Games like Fallout 76, Anthem, Battlefront 2 and No Man’s Sky are the best description of what is wrong with the current industry. Trick idiots to buy your game and then just ignore them and start working on the next product.
Simple cycle to make money with less effort and resources.

2 Likes
23

Fallout 76 was a complete failure and probably didn’t meet sales expectations at all, might have even been big loss due to all the problems it had which might have been why Bethesda got sold to Microsoft

Anthem and BF2 both were made by EA so no surprises there also both of those games missed sales expectations

NMS was made by indie developers funded by Kickstarter, they heavily over-promised but there have been countless of FREE updates so I’ve no idea why it’s even mentioned there

Those are some terrible examples for your “Simple cycle to make money with less effort and resources.”

24

It’s really not. And there are many, many, many, many editing effects available if you want people to read what you wrote: The Ultimate Forum Guide (Codes, Trust Levels, FAQ)

Just editing in a few more line breaks to separate paragraphs would make a huge difference. It won’t improve your assumptions or reasoning, but it will clarify the expression.

This “review” is a random rant from Some Guy On The Internet in a personal blog post. I looked him up - I couldn’t find any connection with WoW, but he has a YT channel with one video about a cat, and he’s now ranting on Twitter about why fat people don’t have the right to be fat. Guess he diversified his interests.

You may agree with him, sure,

25

For me, it really is a case that rather than Rewarding people for doing the content, and therefore driving them to do it, they force people to do it instead.

If there are rewards for doing these things, Mounts, Transmogs etc. I’d be happily doing these things. But instead they’ve removed the reward and said well you have to do these things now in order to play the game.

I first noticed in 8.3 when they introduced Corruption and The Nightmare thingy (whatever it’s called). Now, I’d spent the entire of BFA playing the way I wanted to, sometimes run some Islands, sometimes some M+, Pug a raid here and there… oh those Warfront transmogs look nice, better get those!

Then 8.3 came along and said “Oh here’s some corruption… oh, it’s ruining your game and you want to remove it? Well you have to do this REALLY long quest line to get this cape… ON ALL OF YOUR ALTS! Wanna kill the last boss in the Raid? You need that Cape aswell… yep… even on LFR. But we’re going to keep chucking this corruption at you, and you need to keep removing it, so you have to run these nightmares, which are weekly capped and don’t really reward much.”

What else was on 8.3, There were 2 new Factions added which had the longest rep grind in BFA which had Zero reward at the end of it… so there was no point grinding the rep.

That is how Shadowlands feels, but on a much larger scale. We got given alot of FREE mounts in the first couple of weeks as people discovered (or Wowhead told us) how easy they were to get… then the reward disappeared and the game just turned into a Grind.

If the game was designed around not being Forced Content, but rather making us want to run these things for the reward, it would feel much nicer.

I’d like that option of saying “I want to run some M+ today” or “Oh I really need to get that transmog from Torghast!”, “Oh only, another 1000 anima to unlock that new building in my Covenant!”. Instead I have, “I want to run some M+ today, I need to run Torghast for an hour and spend 50k gold on the AH to get my legendary item”. … “Oh, only another 15,000 anima to go until I unlock my next covenant building.”.

Added: It just feels like they’ve put all these things behind insane grinds to make us play for longer, so they don’t need to add new content. I can’t believe that 9.1 still isn’t in PTR. It’s lazy and cheap on Blizz’s part. It’s time for new content Blizz!

4 Likes
26

One of the biggest points that I agree in the OP is how much time and resources are wasted in building broken and unfun borrowed power systems only to spend even more time and resources trying to fix them within the 2 years of an expansion which removes focus from others things including spec balance.

We are already starting the third cycle of this charade.

6 Likes
27

BFA is the best example of it. Every single patch was focused on addressing problems previous patch introduced and then watch BFA Nyalotha end raid cinematic to sum up how much time and resources were invested into making encounter with a boss that was hyped from Cata, had an episode in BFD dungeon revamp in WoD, was the source of problems in Val’sharah and Emerald Nightmare Raid to be the main villain of BFA. At the end we got this.

2 Likes
28

It did feel like the rushed ending of a TV series.
Like Game of thrones S8.
Or one of those dreaded original anime endings where the adaptation ends ahead of the source material and the end boss is killed with the power of friendship

29

Then it isn’t necessary. You’re touting the same horn as always. Expansion after expansion, patch after patch. You don’t like WoW.

At some point it’s worth questioning whether a game is truly bad, or whether the particular player simply doesn’t like that kind of game.

When you point out such a plethora of issues you have with WoW, then the problem doesn’t lie with Blizzard or WoW - it lies with you.

It is not for Blizzard to move heaven and earth to change the game in such ways that it revolves around your specific preferences.

When you have a mountain of issues with WoW, then it is for you to decide whether you actually want to play the game - warts and all - or find another game that is designed more to your liking.

I don’t like Battle Royale games, so I don’t play them. I don’t commit to them under the pretense that if I lobby enough for changes, then eventually the developers will turn the Battle Royale game into a racing game, which is what I really want to play.

When a player has too many issues with a game for too long, the inaction to do something about it is more reflective of the player’s own shortcomings - not the game’s.

30

Your statement is completely wrong because I like WoW and it always has been my favourite game and it’s not true that these problems were there for years.

Most of them they were implemented since Ion Hazzikostas took over game directing. And things I mentioned weren’t the problem pre-Legion. WoD itself had many of problems but none of them (maybe difficulty level) doesn’t apply to it.

Also at the end devs gare going to actually opt for solutions I was talking for years. WoD gearing. Check last Ion’s interview - they are going to implement it. Why so late?

Your post is basically ironic because few months ago you were also whining for some problems I mentioned here in arenas forums. For you being such Blizzard defender it’s quite hypocritic.

If I hated WoW as a game I’d quit and never come back but because I care I want it to go back to it’s glory days what you never understood.

My post is there to remove the rot that started to spread at some moment and is currently in every aspect of the game. In Legion it was mainly PvP community that complained but since BFA Ion’s approach to WoW seems to affect every part of the community from raiders to M+ players.

P.S.:

Majority of responses in the topic are rather supporting my thesis so it’s clear indication that people overall support my opinion.

3 Likes
31

In my experience there is a crowd of players who don’t actually enjoy WoW anymore as the game it is. They have outlived it, or it has outlived them. That is normal. Happens with all games eventually.

However, they still enjoy WoW as a project, construct, or idea.

Something to talk and discuss about, to think and reflect on.
The years of experience and knowledge becomes a basis for sideline game design.

There’s an ideal of WoW in their minds and if Blizzard just makes the game this way, then they would play and enjoy WoW as much as they did many years ago.

But reality is that they are done with WoW as a game. The enjoyment is being the armchair designer and second-guessing Ion Hazzikostas and talking about all the things they would do based on all the experience and knowledge they have. And why that would be better than what Blizzard is doing.

That’s a fun activity. Especially here on the forum. It’s like talking about WWII with your grandfather and discussing the merit of all the strategic decisions made by the generals.

If you’re putting more time into writing about WoW than playing it, then it’s not WoW as a game that appeals. It’s WoW as a construct or project.

That’s why some people can stick around for countless expansions despite hating all of them. They enjoy the discussions and talks that come out of them.

32

“Some” isn’t good word for 50% of the people who bought the expansion. Such big retention during last 4 expansions means that people would like to play WoW but there are huge design issues.

The problem doesn’t lie in core activities in the game like M+, Raiding or PvP because they are fine and still fun the problem lies in everything around.

They said - provide feedback on forum so I’m doing it. Also if people warn them that thing x is not going to work for it then it’s not player’s fault but devs. Also keep in mind that at the end they create the game for players to play it and we pay for it. So if we pay for it we have to be satisfied. 50% of the customers being disappointed and leaving is a huge problem because most of them won’t play the game again even if the issues will be solved mid expansion.

Also the fact that many pieces of feedback despised for 2 expansions are currently used by Blizzard and are working means that it was mistake to ignore it 2 expansions back. Good example - PvP vendors - overall they work and now we have Valor vendor that was seen as wrong 2 expansions back but suddenly it’s fine.

It shows that devs are out of touch with the community and in many cases they are completely wrong. Good example was also “you think you do but you don’t” and suddenly Classic was pushing sub no. to the roof during bad days of BFA.

1 Like
33

Your post is a forum post.

It is written because you enjoy the process of writing it.

You conjure up issues because you obviously enjoy the subsequent discussion of them. Forum discussion is fun! You got 3235 posts that indicate that.

When someone comes to the forum and complains about being ganked in The Maw, then you know that what spurred them to write their forum post was the immediate frustration of being ganked in The Maw and subsequently wanting an outlet for that frustration. Forum raging is fun!

When someone comes to the forum and writes a lengthy post about the game’s direction, subscriber numbers, community feedback and other lofty topics, then you know that it’s just a collection of their thoughts on the game and an abundance of things surrounding it that they want to show to everyone else and talk about and discuss and so on.

Your issues are not issues. They are expressions of your thoughts born out of thinking about WoW and listening to other people’s opinions on WoW and getting involved in discussions on its design and spending time analyzing aspects of the game to support a thesis.
And they are wonderful expressions! But they are not issues. They are discussion points where you have a position and then you reason it and argue the merit of your position versus that of Blizzard. And then you write it all down and post it here for further discussion with the rest of the community.

But it’s not…real.

It’s not genuine like the guy who gets ganked in The Maw and immediate comes to the forum and says: “SCREW YOU BLIZZARD YOU IDIOTS! YOUR GAME IS CRAP AND GANKING IN THE MAW IS STUPID. FIX IT NOW!!”

This thread exists only because you like to think a lot about WoW. And if you think a lot about WoW, then you can conjure up all sort of problems with it.

34

Hard agree, the devs of modern WoW are not the same devs of Classic-WoTLK era, they don’t even attempt to copy the same philosophies that made the game the success it was back in 2005. Why? Money mostly, why cater to a dedicated playerbase when you can shovel fastfood tier gameplay to every mary and gary with a credit card. Cash shop for this cash shop for that.

Accessibility into endgame content now is essentially impossible as its stratified to the point players are pigeon holed into a tier and they don’t move from it either out of discomfort or because systems in the game prevent this. Look to classic, there’s one end game and everyone takes part, both good and bad players.

Borrowed power systems (ie garrisons, artifacts, heart of azeroth, covenants) are tacked on to make players log in more because they need a daily grind that they can use to push engagement metrics up. Notice also this became common after they stopped reporting sub numbers to shareholders.

I wouldn’t say there is a lack of content for casuals, its more the casuals have been forced to adopt more hardcore philosophies into their playstyle to get anything they want out of the game.

2 Likes
35

They are issues because 5 of my friends wanted to play more WoW due to pandemy since all of us have more time. We played together in Cata and MoP but because of these chores they stopped playing. If you noticed I didn’t make such posts since I quit BFA. My posts were rather regarding balancing but again my friends left and since the release of SL my friend’s list shrinked by 70%.

These people don’t sign in anymore. I have to use LFG again. These are the main reasons why they left and why I can’t fully enjoy the game in the way I did in the past. Also devs said multiple times - write your feedback on forums. I summed everything that is wrong about the current version of the game and as you can see plenty of people agree.

Now think why do I think about the game because I’m passionate about it and I want it to be good. If I didn’t I wouldn’t care. Let’s be honest Jito SL isn’t good expansion so far like BFA wasn’t good either. I repeat around 50% of the player base quit. Do you think it’s right and how it should be? We didn’t get to season 2 and there is already such retention.

If it was generic game that I play but I don’t care as much about like WoW (for example Tekken 7 that I played a lot when I didn’t play WoW) I’d quit and didn’t care but since it’s WoW I care.

By this I meant that Ion tries to put everything behind the grind like in Classic not necessarily like in old WoW because TBC and Wrath while a bit grindy were going away from this and hard grindy things were brought since Legion release (AP etc., hard emphasis on WF and TF). I said Ion as he is known for being hardcore raider in WoW’s early days and how he always defend grinds in Q&A. While I don’t mind grinds in MMO the way they were unnaturally extended feels wrong. I meant also preserving activities as premade groups only and not implementing solo queue for PvP or M+ that I think these systems need.

I meant SL only here. Covenant campaigns are extremely short and trivial compared to class campaigns and even war campaigns in BFA.

36

Exactly! That is my point! It is your own mind that is the origin of all of this. You think too much.

You’re better off not thinking about that at all. It’s just fuel on the fire in your mind that is aflame with thoughts on WoW and all its issues and problems – and solutions and ideas for those issues and problems.
It just feeds on itself.

Here’s the best recipe on how to enjoy WoW:

Don’t visit the forums or social media or fansites or anything like that.

The more you dive into this bottomless lake of community discussions on subscriber numbers, game direction, developer competence, shareholder interests and what not, the more you become a byproduct of it yourself.

Your initial post basically reads like someone who has sucked up all the negative and jaded forum opinions for the past while and made them his own.

Like those senior citizens in the US who get asked about politics and then they just blabber on and it’s as if everything they say is a copy/paste straight out of Fox News or CNN or whatever TV channel they get their opinions from. They become them.

37

But they ask for feedback so I give feedback. Plenty of the things I mentioned 2-3 years ago are finally in the game. PvP vendors, they are implementing WoD type of gearing in next patch so it means that with big delay but still something is changing.

By making such posts I motivate players to talk about it. More feedback we bring then more changes are likely to happen. I support also Stoopzz and he asked to leave as much feedback so I’m doing it.

Why shouldn’t I leave feedback and pretend everything is fine if SL is very poor? There are few positives that I also mentioned in other posts but there are still these problems that I’d love Blizzard to address. As a long term customer I think I have right to leave my opinion and don’t understand what’s your problem about it when a lot of people support it?

Your reply is basically “dude don’t leave feedback because you pointed everything that is wrong”. That’s actually the point of feedback. Isn’t it?

And Jito please don’t bring something like “you kill your own fun from the game” because since when do you care if I enjoy the game or not. I can’t enjoy it if I see my friends being so hyped about new expansion then quitting because of these problems current game has.

1 Like
38

Yeah but what is the origin of that feedback?

If you just play WoW and never read the forums or news sites or anything like that, would your feedback ever revolve around Ion Hazzikostas’ competence as a Game Director or the game’s declining subscriber numbers?

No.

That’s stuff you’ve picked up here on the forums.

It’s not feedback from your gameplay experience. If you just played the game you wouldn’t even know who Ion Hazzikostas was or how many subscribers WoW have lost.

Again, the guy who gets ganked in The Maw and QQs about that provides feedback that can be easily linked to a particular gameplay experience.

Assessing that the developers don’t know whether to develop WoW in the direction of a classic MMORPG or a more modern online game is just…your brain overthinking recent forum discussion topics in an effort to present a definitive conclusion to it all.

It’s not real. It’s just forum soup.