Payment is payment, but if you pay other players only to try and catch up to them, it’s still not p2w per definition.
Have you seen the mmorpgs that dont have a subscription model? Like ESO, SW:ToR or LotRo. Their cash shop is so out of control it makes you nauseous just looking at it.
If it means paying 13 Euro (or more) to keep that stuff out of WoW, then I´m fine with it.
Sure - it doesn’t give any advantage to people, who pay more than others - one can buy 999x tokens, when other one obviously can’t afford it, but sure, first one is not winning by definition, lol.
Aside of that token price isn’t even 13$, but 20$, so company still makes profit on it in situation, when one wants to play only by buying tokens for gold (being in disadvantageous position, since who wants to play for farm).
In rest of situations, when gold stays in game forever by for example buying mounts, it’s even more profitable for company.
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Maybe instead of playing a game that they can’t afford they can go to WORK?
lazy people problems
i do not like going to work because i want play wow all day but i don’t have money for wow
so instead of actually being productive…you go to forums cry about pls blizzard make wow F2P so even me a lazy person can play all day 
pathetic
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Bugs don’t matter nearly as much in SP games where your irl time isn’t literally being monetized
Very astute response displaying a considerable amount of intellect.
Every game where you can officially buy in-game currency for real money is a P2W game if that currency can then translate to player power, whether or not you can earn it in-game is irrelevant. Pay to skip and pay for convenience are also P2W and the terminology becomes irrelevant at that point. The point is, they are just as bad.
Players don’t set in-game prices, botters do because they massively influence the economy, especially through raw gold farms. I as a player can’t do anything about it, and having an alt to max out every profession is a ridiculously disingenuous “solution”.
You are aware that there are non-first-world countries out there yeah? I’m pretty sure you aren’t because most people CAN and DO work, but the fact is that a person doing one job in say, Argentina will have 3-10 times lower purchasing power than a person doing the exact same job in US/UK in terms of digital items, tech, and everything else without regional pricing.
It’s not about being able to afford something it’s about something being overpriced for the quality/quantity it offers, and discussing it as opposed to going for the 10-yr-old version of the argument that is “don’t like it don’t buy it” is always a good thing.
The gold, the only thing you can by, by itself it does not. If there is not a player created market then you just have a bunch of gold, and that’s it.
But if there is already a player created market, that means there are those who already won before you, without paying anything. Because those are the players who sell you the crafted, farmed items.
So you don’t get any items from Blizzard doesn’t matter how much you pay, and the gold you get doesn’t make you win, since there are those who alread won way before you, and then created the ingame market. The place where you can also buy and sell, basically the only thing you get from all this. Therefore the system doesn’t meet any criteria what would make it p2w.
And I don’t say that it’s not a flawed system, it is. But if it doesn’t fit the definition of p2w, not directly, not even indirectly, then calling it p2w is nonsense. It’s just unsupported and therefore frivolous hating and this point.
U completely ignore the fact, which I mentioned previously that token still creates gap between people, who are behind now and for example cannot afford token or simply doesn’t want to additionally pay, while others do it, therefore they are gaining power in game and are in advantageous position against these, who don’t pay and are already behind. U corellate P2W term only as way to be on the highest position in game, while ignoring people in middle and low position.
I didn’t ignore it, that is why I said it’s still not a fair system. Just not pay to win.
so because of these people we should stop doing business and start doing charity ok?
I’m a from a poor country myself called slovakia so the poorest people there barely can afford paying rent
yet here i’m traveling across europe doing the work making the money playing the wow
how is that possible?
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At 10 yo WoW already had way more bugs than FF does. It’s only gotten worse with time.
Stop making excuses for incompetence or trying to sell short a game that is currently more popular than WoW because it is doing things right. I don’t care about how you personally feel about the game or how your tribalism makes it think you have to choose one or the other, it is the competition and it shows we can expect better. There is no excuse to be satisfied with a faulty product.
Yeah like having unskipable long grind to get to end game and virtually ZERO PvP…
You FF 
must be getting desperate with that convenient narrative of yours.
You won’t find me in FF forums talking about WoW. Nor under FF videos trying to convince weebs to come over to WoW. You FF on the other hand … 
It’s not the bugs or content, it’s just that there is no need for a subscription. Many games survive on the initial purchase and others on micro-transactions but there’s definitely no reason to charge other than greed, I’m sure WoW would survive and even thrive without it.
Removing the subscription model would:
- Lead to a big influx of bot(ter)s
- Make the token useless
- Lower the content quality
- Less boats for blizzard execs (sorry, had to include this).
The amount of bugs in this expansion is honestly so ridiculous it wouldn’t even be justified in a free to play game. Just to give some examples, I became aware of 3 bugs on the last boss of Nokhud alone, one of which makes the boss literally unkillable, and all 3 happened in just two runs.
As for the most recent and by far the worst bug I’ve ever seen in this game, yesterday during raid, we killed a boss, but the encounter apparently didn’t end itself properly. The boss was dead on the floor and lootable, but those who were alive were stuck in combat, and whoever was dead couldn’t release. The only solution was to disband the raid and get teleported out, but after doing that, we couldn’t enter the raid because the game thought the encounter was still in progress. It happened less than an hour into our raid and by the time it fixed itself, it was well past our raiding hours so we lost almost an entire raid night to this.
It genuinely feels just as bad, and at times even worse than private servers, because at private server there’s usually some GMs online willing to fix things in a matter of minutes, meanwhile with Blizzard you’d be lucky to get a ticket response within a week. It honestly feels like I’m paying just to get a free to play level of quality anyway.
Not everyone has to be selfish douchebag like u. They can just adjust prices to countries.
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and nyalotha was one of if not the worst
yeah because bugs dont exist in any other game 
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FF14 players were never saying it was a wowkiller. This stuff only started when WoW streamers defected. As usual toxicity comes from those who stream.
It does, it has BGs and arenas for quite some time.
Me thinks you know nothing about FF14, making it up as you go along…