Gotta say that i am not fan of the borrowed power and never will be.
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That’s no ridiculous extreme when the game itself lets you level to max level in 3 days and you make like 20 level in only 2 hours even as a beginner of the game.
Level are kind of interesting if you could enjoy levelling up.
The idea of removing level at this point isn’t an extreme at all. It would change only very little about the actual day to day gameplay of wow. You could make it so that quests give talent points like some classes had for some time and it felt the same.
That’s a decision you are making. Its not about the borrowed power.
No thanks. After legion, bfa and SL, I can confirm that I did not grow a taste for eating poop (borrowed power), despite Blizzard forcing it upon players for close to 8 years.
Also…cant remember when I ever felt like that at the start of a new character in years.
Even without heirlooms most classes 1 or 2 shot every enemy and feel STRONGER and get weaker with levelling up. And the biggest drop-off to power is at 70 as it feels.
Having player power linked to their gear is a much better way of doing it.
You get the gear most suitable to the content you do (when it’s tuned correctly, which it isn’t always).
And when the next expansion launches you replace this gear slowly over the leveling experience. Not in one fel swoop at pre-patch or launch.
We used to have more enchants and gems (including meta gems with some powers).
We used to have reforging.
So our gear used to be a better way of getting and building player power.
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You like levelling, some of us have been playing this game for a long time and levelling has nothing new or exciting to offer. So yes we want to cap and jump into the end game because that’s where it starts for us.
I can appreciate others want a slow and arduous journey but they need to find some way of doing that without penalising everyone else. I previously suggested they should have a tabard of slow xp gain for those that revel in the levelling experience. I have done every expansion when it was current, I’ve seen every quest in every zone, from both factions and the neutral ones. I have an account full of characters, the only exciting levelling experience I get is new expansions or new content.
I personally am not looking to remove levelling. I’ve never suggested removing levelling. Others have ofc. But I did not say that and I dislike people claiming I have said things I haven’t. For me levelling is fast enough that I’m fine with it existing. So bringing back borrowed power is my idea of hell. Having to start at cap and every character have to do longwinded borrowed power grinds to become viable is my idea of hell. They tried that, most didn’t seem to like it. DF brought us back to a good place for players like me, we cap then we gear and we can enjoy the game. We aren’t gated.
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Sure sure and tell that to your raid team where they are all are AP level 20s(for example) while you are at lvl 5 and they are simply asking “do you even play your character?”
Again. At least PvE where I play at. Its very competitive and people fight for their raid spots. And even a small difference such AP level differences can make a difference.
WoW is not a solo game where you are in full control of what you can or cant do. In an MMO group and community dynamics can force you to make a decision…if you want to be part of that specific circle and etc.
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Again, those are player created problems. It’s not the system at fault.
Funny thing is people are still chasing that carrot on a stick but now they’re called crests.
Little fun fact, nearly every game plays with borrowed power. The only difference wow didn’t die like it should have, like even the greatest games of all time do at some point.
You have to stop playing games for some time to appreciate them again later. Skipping Shadowlands was a blessing for me personally.
All battle royals use borrowed power. You start at zero, gear yourself up, get abilities and at the end you win or die and you are back to zero.
Even some competitive shooter work like this.
But I do get if people like a more “baseline solid” experience.
My own problem is that WoW seems to be naither fish nor meat at this point.
No slow and long term MMORPG but also no fast paced action game. (even so it feels gameplaywise like the latter)
You make a game for the players you have, not the players you wish you had.
You can nudge player behaviour with the systems but you can’t change them that much.
If the players play a certain way you can’t simple say “Stop playing that way please, we want our game to work thusly”.
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That problem didn’t simply pop out of thin air but was encouraged to develop by a faulty in the system. If AP was capped on a weekly basis then the problem might be less severe…if at all.
Apples to oranges.
1st Crests are weekly capped.
2nd You got a limited gear slots which you can upgrade so sooner or later you will be “done”. While AP was infinite.
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They can, they just wont. But Blizzard is weird in that they both support and discourage degenerate behavior. So here we are.
But again, this discussion will just keep going in circles. Its pointless 
Already great examples of people confusing “need” with “want” its just funny at this point.
Exactly. This week I didn’t even bother to crest cap because I have nothing to upgrade atm. If I do get an upgrade I know I can farm the crests for whatever item and just upgrade it.
There is an end to all upgrading tracks, there isn’t a we must log in to do these tasks or fall behind. The amount of raiding and M+ I do at the start of a season is far greater than what I have to do at this stage because the way the systems are set up. It is far superior now.
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On little change of statement on my part.
I realized begin strong and feeling weaker at the end could also translate to
“The game is easier and gets harder at the end”
And that is actually normal videogame design to have the player do more and be more challenged when he played a certain time.
The primary issue with burrowed power wasn’t actually the fact that it was burrowed I’ve come to realise. All expansions had burrowed power, vanilla included, because when you levelled up to 70 your gear was very quickly replaced by far more powerful and far more easily attainable gear, and various items were rescaled from percentages to ratings, and the power of those ratings dwindled.
The problem with burrowed power was that they were characterized by chores - easy, repetitive content that was mandatory for you to do at a set schedule in order to be able to do anything.
“Thou must do thine dailies, or thou shalt not raid!”
That is the real lesson from burrowed power.
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I personally liked legion artifact weapons. It was a cool adition. Ofc haters gonna hate.
Remix is cool on that part, since u can login daily to work toward a bit to get better.
What is retail now: do x dungeons, kill y raid boss, earn z honor from rated arena and get 1 (maybe) upgrade from the weekly slot machine.
Artifact weapons aren’t borrowed power, i meant they were upgraded by borrowed power but they might as well could’ve existed without it.
Borrowed power is precisely “do WQs to upgrade power level of your unique piece”
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As long as they are something that we get to eventually leave behind and lose all the spells and passives we gained from having them, they are borrowed power.
The difference between them and other weapons and tier sets is how much time one had to invest on them only to leave them behind.
The power of a character comes from a combination of skill and gear. You do have breakpoints with stats. Why are you acting like you have booted up the game for the first time, everyone knows this.
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