S4 is going to make people love DOTI, but just because the other dungeons are terrible.
Nokhud offensive i hated so much that i never went back after timing a 15 there.
Splinter from Brackenhide is pretty good for tanking though.
IMO you guys are complaining about the wrong thing.
Whoever remembers S1 and S2 has to take into consideration that it wont be anything like S1 and S2.
S1 DF dungeons were hard because we were all “undergeared”. Unlike now that most of us are walking arround with 1, if not 2 secondary stats soft caped.
Its not the same to be a rogue with 10% vers in S1, vs now with 40%. Or in S4 with 50%. If you know what I mean.
WIth that said, DF dungeons are prety well designed IMO and you will ALL have a ton of fun. Except for DOTI.
Plus lets not forget that having the drops from 3 raids combined will be a nice upgrade to all of us.
So I have the impression that Blizz will implement S4 with “OPness” in mind, and I predict a shift from survivability (as it was in S1, S2) to raw DPS check to time dungeons.
No. There’s a reason why we did enjoy in s1 and s2 the non DF dungeons but not the DF dungeons. It has nothing to do with player power. That just got solved by going higher keys. S1 +20, s2 +23, s3 +25.
But to be fair, i do want to give Academy another chance. Not Ruby life pools or Nokhud or Uldaman.
But what is wrong with those dungeons?
Uldaman was anoying, sure. But not that anoying. Neither was RLP. I enjoyed RLP in the end of S1 after they hoyfixed some of the insane trash.
I actually think they were well designed dungeons. Its just that they did not get class balance in order and ony a few classes could really enjoy it “as intended”.
In my oppinion too many overlapping mechanics (every pack has double the amount of mechanics in comparison to previous expansion dungeons) where i as a healer somehow need to dodge, run out of big circles, and heal at the same time. Or just overlapping damage mechanics where i can not do anything about. Ruby life pools was just pure hell. That is not getting fixed by nerfing and letting us do 1 or 2 keylevels higher.
Didnt help indeed that they completely ducked over hpala DURING the season by taking away holy avenger because ret needed a rework. Leaving me with 1 cooldown less. But that is an different big annoyance which is not relevant for dungeon design.
I disagree. You wont complain as much about those mechanics you mention when the first pack is already one-shoting the tank with white hits.
Im exagerating, but you get the point. The reason we all dislike those hard-hitting movement intensive fights is that they are the “crux” of the dungeon. So everything is EZ up to that point.
But it should not be the case. So if healers have to move, the stuff should hit less hard. When you can just sit stationary and spam heals, things should hit harder.
Sort of like EB right now. Where the tree boss is a joke and the mage is crazy hard. Maybe the mage has to hit less hard, and the tree has to literaly mush the tank so you have to babysit him. That would seem fair wouldent it?
I remember how for 2 months streight only Druid and Evoker could do M+. Every other healer was benched.
I mean, RLP, Nokhud and all the DF dungeons has every pack double the amount of mechanics. I can’t help it i enjoy Halls of Valor, DHT, Nelths Lair, Waycrest, Underrot, Atal 10 times more than DF dungeons. Blizz went completely overboard with the amount of mechanics. And that has nothing to do with keylevels or over- and undertuning.
funny cus I would also argue half of those old dungeons have just as bad trash as soon as you get to any key level where people cant just tank 2 abilities/casts going off in a row with 0 defensives
You are correct there. Cant argue with that.
But I have to say that if everything can be interrupted/dodged there would be nothing to heal. So in a way I sort of like that play style. But its a matter of taste really.
Like in WM, that “Etch” trucks. So I prefer to have a ton of stuff that does not truck as much, as oposed to 1 thing that 2-shots people in Fortified weeks.
So because DF dungeons have a ton of mechanics, if you tune them such that they dont truck as much the dungeon overall is more fun. But again, its my opinion.
We all got 1-shot by the Nokud pulls before the storm boss… 
That “lightning bolt” or whatever it was called trucked. A lot.
I think i just accept that when we are at >25 keys there are things that sort of 1 shots. it is infinite going up. I understand there are limits that is doable. But we do not need to design dungeons that are from +2 to +24 also making the playerbase miserable.
Should not be that way though. If there are things that 1-shot you on a 25 you should 100% be able to interrupt it / LOS it.
And my opinion is that damage should be caped. So the limit to what one should be able to do should be DPS after some key levels. I just dont like this “survivability” meta we have now. You cap the damage to some level to keep the healer spaming heals all dungeon long, and then the measure of skill is just HP of mobs.
So to time high keys you need bigger pulls (more damage) and the healer to pump more DPS on top of the healing. Thats what the “top of the top” should look like.
Its my opinion though so… we will see what blizz does.
Now that would be an interesting thing to implement 
I need to process the pro’s and con’s of this but there are certainly things i like with that. Interesting.
My fav dungeon among the bunch would be Azure Vault 
… BHH can die a horrible death by fire.
Oughhhh
Pugging keys in DF Dungeons is the worst m+ experience that I had in all of m+ wow…
Those dungeons just aren’t fun…
Uldaman… Ruby Lifepool…
I’ll just do my ksh and be done with it…
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My friend and I pugged all S4 last time. I’ve probably pugged most keys with him this time. I do some with my guild too.
S1 dungeons were much harder tuned than they currently are so it will be interesting to see how that works out.
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Hit me up if you ever need another DPS or tank
Got sick
Also a warrior that I keep on same level of gear , also tank/DPS 
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Hmm, I have to admit, it will be super sadge to lose the cheat death trinket 
. Saved my skin many times on higher keys
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