Seeds of Renewal Zone Overview: Discover Bel'ameth

Can I ask something? A bit off topic, but if the NEs as a race 10+ milennia old, how come that they are using the very same technology today that they used back then? Even if they are so nature friendly you would think that a subset of them already reached interstellar travel by now. :smiley:

I am not a lore-guru, so I might be wrong, but in my interpretation the night elves distanced themselves from the highborne lifestyle on purpose, so they would not fall into the same mistake that Azshara and her followers did.

Can we burn it down as is tradition with world trees?

On a serious note tho, since it wont be a player race capital. Does anyone else get the feeling this likely will be used in a future expansion when we need to visit the emerald dream/realm of life and help or fight their pantheon. It feels like this is being set up this way.

Like an oribos wich actually had its existance build up story wise

Well as Blizz would reply: You never know /shrug.

Lets be honest. Even Chris Metzen isn’t the top of the line story teller. Even he, who wrote some of the books and lore stories, they just throwing numbers all over the place. My biggest irk in the game when I read: “10 thousand years”… As a human however smart and wise we are we can’t even imagine half a decade in the future. Not to mention 500 years back into our history. I would definitely wouldn’t have started out a magic and sword MMO with such numbers ever, with such stories like 10k years, millions of years, ohh and with races like Draeni. This is where Blizzard looses serious RPGers like me, who grew up on D&D and paper and pencil and other novels. They just don’t have that imagination (even though I really like Metzen, but well he is “just” a good sales person in my eyes, sorry Chris no offense I still like you and what you do with WoW but its “definitely lacking and promised more and deeper and better…”

It’s not “same technology” - it’s just rural architecture. Stuff you build when you want something up fast, and it’s usually used in rural areas.

Actually they’ve using that sort of buildings in rural areas for nearly 15,000 years.

In warcraft you have 1 architectural style for rural areas, and another for urban areas. Bigger races often tend to have a few more unique structures for special buildings.

IF that helps.

Just because two things happen does not mean one is a direct result of the other.

Lifestyle and civilization are also two different things. One does not necessarily have rural buildings because one distanced oneself from a certain lifestyle.

Night elves had their civilization destroyed by the legion - they didn’t leave it because they distanced themselves from the top caste - it was destroyed.

Furthermore, to prevent the legion from returning to Azeroth, the largest surviving group of night elves that fled to Mount Hyjal - decided to dedicate themselves to preventing the legion’s return, rather than returning to normal life. No doubt feeling remorse for their role in the legion’s arrival at Azeroth or feeling they owed a debt, or their sense of justice - either way - they took steps to prevent the legion returning that prevented them using their capabilities to restore their civilization or even take the time to do it.

So as such, they lived as they were after the events of the destruction by the legion and following sundering on their civilization until the long vigil ended. However do remember two other night elven groups in Eldre’thalas (aka Dire Maul) and Suramar continued living in cities they hid for 10,000 years also - they were also in isolation too - but they were just living for themselves for the most part and got into trouble because they didn’t live in balance. (probably just wanted to forget the horror of what happened and had the means to do so - didn’t have to live in the very depressing aftermath and lacked the spiritual and natural influence that could have greatly helped them emerge sooner and more convincingly)

Highborne lifestyle - is not night elf civilization. There was nothing to “distance” themselves from except opening up to demons or living a life of extreme arrogance and addiction. The Northern night elves you could say distanced themselves from that - although that is putting it mildly - the utterly rejected that. They however did not distance themselves from cities and civilization - that was destroyed and they have been in isolation since it happened until very recently, so haven’t really had much time to rebuild.

Once the legion returned, the need for the Long vigil ended. All the night elven groups have since come out of isolation. Darnassus was built, the Shen’dralar are trying to repair/restore Eldre’thalas that had been falling to ruin for about 1000 years before the dark portal opened- and Suramar has been kept pristinely by the nightborne in its full pre-sundering glory

Another facilitator of rebuilding is using arcane magic, which the northern group , the only one of the survivors not living in a city, had restricted to prevent the legion’s returning, had not been available due to their own restriction and thus not used to rebuild their cities.

However, since the Long vigil ended, and the legion return, naturally the need to restrict arcane magic usage for spells of any sort, including aiding in rebuilding has also gone, and as such the night elves themselves joined arcane using humans, high elves, draenei and others, and themselves lifted their self imposed ban on using the arcane, and their ban on their Highborne caste who had been living in Eldre’thalas, Suramar and other places.

Technically this means night elves can now employ their magical knowledge and skill in the arcane to assist their other artisans and builders in constructing a city and also repairing ones in ruin like Eldre’thalas , Nar’thalas or Zin’Azshari - which was not done before wc3, because of the afore mentioned reasons.

Having a city does not mean the type of lifestyle most night elves will never return to. Indeed, Darnassus and all the pre-sundering cities of the kaldorei were and are not the cause of regrettable lifestyle choices.

Indeed, attitudes and mindsets, such as arrogance and addiction usually cause this. Having a city does not cause this. Cities are objects, they exist for a purpose and are an indication of race or societies level of development and progress.

Whiles undesirable lifestyles can emerge from cities, the mere existence of a city is not the cause of such, and in fact, most cities , like nations of power are fully developed after a period of great progress and good living before less welcome attitudes grow and sometimes lead to perilous times for a civilization, city or nation - (whether they have a city or not).

We are fully aware of what led to the night elves’ civilization’s destruction, and it was not having cities or really good buildings. It was the legion, brought about when the ruler and those closest to her, got really power hungry and thought they’d be gaining more power by inviting Sargeras - they were sweet talked by him, but he only succeeded because they were arrogant and lost sight of themselves.

Like all who gain great knowledge or wealth, there is always the susceptibility to corruption, and as truly excellent as they were, the night elves are no exception. Still many did not fall to Sargeras’ wooing or the Queen’s decision to join him. She did… but why? Well, we read she had a vain glorious streak, = pride. Her pride is what led to addiction - she simply refused to listen to the warnings of other Highborne, priests, druid types - all worried about the excessive use of power - pride makes you think you are above all that, or can manage it. Hubris causes you to be reckless - you take un-necessary risks, where you were once either cautious or very mindful of how powerful and dangerous the forces you are wielding are, you become flippant and complacent because you think you can handle it because you’ve been so good at it - or basically everyone keeps praising you for how wonderful you are - eventually it can go to your head big time if you don’t have anyone bringing you to earth. Like a lover or say you believed in a goddess that was greater than you - these can help keep you grounded,

See it is quite possible to be incredibly intelligent, wealthy and powerful without falling to pride/hubris which always comes before a fall - i mean they literally cause you to fall, you stay in that place of power by remembering your roots, keeping close the things that got you there, whether it is love of your life, great friends, mentors and people with wisdom you continue to listen to, or a divine being you adore that always reminds you how small you are.,

Needless to say, this queen’s head got big, she skillfully had the priesthood booted out which is why Suramar became it’s headquarters and not Zin’Azshari where it originally was head quartered, she looked down on the humility form the priest and any who did not wield power like she sought, even though she used many, like the Shen’dralar to make her wonders for her, which she took all the credit - don’t’ get me wrong, she was more than capable, but she had the Shen’dralar types do the wonders that wow’d her people and elicit her praise, while she delved into the well of eternity for more knowledge, secrets and ultimately power - which was her goal.

She woudl not have always been like this off course, no, I believe she was quite upright at first, of at least undetectably flawless character, and impeccable, she would have won the hearts of everyone with this, priests and druids alike would have thoroughly charmed, and she would have appealed to everyone. Beauty, surface humility, reverence - and their enamouring with her would have led her astray and her in turn them as she grew more to rely only on herself. I can imagine how this could have led anyone to what she eventually became.

However I hope by this walk through, you can see that it isn’t cities, civilization or buildings that the night elves distanced themselves from - or those that seemed to. It was nature wielding ancients and arcane wielding mages that we are told built those cities - so they would have happened in a time before hubris and addiction as is typical in many a great civilization.

Cities become necessary when you advance as a people, you organise highly, have division of labour, a central place of command and operations that administers a country. Passion and love too. Love of the goddess Elune would elicit great temples - which you see are built in Darnassus, Zin’Azshari, Suramar and in almost every night elf ruin - so even without a need for them, these people would build great buildings, and beautiful houses because they do love beauty when making a place of permanence. This is why Darnassus when built once again returns to the great styles of the pre-sundering era cities or which Suramar is the updated architectural model.

Other needs for cities and organisation are required when you have enemies in other civilizations. During the period of isolation, like the long vigil, the night elves did not. They worked with dragons, ancients etc because they were living purely to defend the world - well those in the north were. Those in Suramar and Eldre’thalas were not.

When you come out of that, which they did when the long vigil ended, you are now competing with other like they were. Orcs, humans, friends and enemies, alike, especially enemies. You need better organisation as a nation. Dragons and ancients don’t fight for the night elf nation, they fight for the world, to protect Azeroth, and will aid such causes. night elves are left to themselves, naturally to be strong against enemies and friends alike.

Cities and civilization are typically this, you need embassies, academies, class halls, places for traders and craftsmen as you’re now needing an economy, if not for yourselves personally at least in relation to other races/nations you need to keep afloat - which requires certain resources as you must interact with them - you can’t keep aloof in isolation where no one knows about you silently defending the world from what they have no knowledge of. That’s all ended. Not to mention you can now live for other things than preventing the legion returning. Growing your population, restoring the good things that you lost. And some of these good things are your civilization and cities.

The night elves built the best civilization the world has had so far, highly organised, excellent and robust - the reason they hate the legion so much is because they destroyed what was very good, stuff they had built over 5,000 years, and the reason they now hate the queen they once loved is because she betrayed them to it.

Whiles night elven druids would walk in vast forests endeavouring to keep them untouched by mortal hands as much as possible, this isn’t all night elves. Furthermore, recognising the needs humanoid sentients have, like elves inevitably to who of other persuasions, such as priests, mages, crafters, artisans, traders, warriors, diplomats, scholars etc - they would thoroughly support high density population centres for elves that would be the best way to minimise disturbance of their forests. Within those forests they would prefer the minimum possible of homes and houses, and no high concentrations. This is why typically, rural night elven places in forests where druidic communities exist are typically tiny compared to the size of the forest, with a the odd hut tucked away in a corner. Most druids themselves living under tress, in caves and barrow dens, as close to nature naturally, but also disturbing it as little as possible so as to effect the same natural wonder they see in the emerald dream.

Far too often the confusion of the entire night elf race as druids, rather than as having druidism only a part of a larger and wider group of people that have different ways of living, loves and objectives. While it is true all night elves love nature, only in druids is nature supreme. For Priests Elune is, for mages the arcane is, for craftsmen, it will be their craft, however you can be a technology producing engineer like I am and love nature. Sure you live and work in a city, but you would gladly take holidays in the country or have a second home in a quiet secluded place. Your home in the city, those full of tech and high city, would have beautiful garden and plants all over.

A common mistake is thinking that night elven Highborne won’t love nature, or that nature loving night elves somehow can only be druids and not be other things.

This is a very narrow view of night elves, and it’s a reductive vision to, it is sadly greatly exacerbated by the lack of visual representation of night elves in the many non-druid roles they excel at such as priests and mages the lore puts them as having some of the very best in the world, in fact their arcane knowledge is well sought after. Also the lack of seeing night elves in cities and temples of pristine nature also perpetuate this mis-characterisation and conception, for without people just think all night elves re druids even if the converse isn’t so.

Therefore sadly people fail to see the vast majority of what the lore has painted for night elves. Who knows what Highborne, Moonguard, Moon Priestesses, Wardens, Demon Hunters are? Yet in the novels and lore they are very famous, and druids are to disproportionately more significant in roles or appearance than they are. In fact it is only in game the imbalance occurs.

Only in game the lack of seeing serious night elf mages, or moon priestesses, demon hunters or wardens in action is apparent, the vast majority of appearances being druids, and only in game is the lack o f cities and night elves in cities and temples also sadly lacking, with most non-race visualisations being out in the sticks giving a disproportionate perception of them that is not as good as it is in the written accounts. Something I hope they remedy.

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