So no buffs for holy priests

Classes Priest
62

Both raid and mythic+ the top healing source for me is Echo of Light. Echo of light is affected by both crit and vers.

Intellect is basically spellpower.
Spell Power = (Round(StatRating(SpellPower), 0) + TotalIntellect

So for flash heal = 2.03 * [TotalSpellPower] * [TotalHealingMultiplier]

So were does vers come in?
TotalHealingMultiplier = StatMultiplier(HealingMultiplier) * TotalHealingTakenMultiplier * (1 + TotalVersatility)

Total multiplier on healing that you receive. Not that common, but a few tank/healer buffs use it.
Healing Taken Multiplier = StatMultiplier(HealingTakenMultiplier)
Healing Multiplier = 0.05 for holy priest

So vers is a buff to your healing multiplier and increases the amount you heal for each cast by the same amount.

Critical Strike
Total Critical Strike from all sources (gear, buffs, multipliers, temporary procs, etc.) This is your chance to score a critical strike.
All current Critical Strike bonuses are additive.

Crit Healing Multiplier
Total multiplier on critical strike healing. In most cases this multiplier gets applied to the final crit heal (which is 2x normal heal).

So we can see that vers gives a flat buff to healing. Critical strikes whan they happen cause 2x the healing to take place. Both can work together, with mastery.

So vers increase the base heal, then your Crit Healing Multiplier doubles that. The result is taken by mastery and that becomes your echo of light.

Echo of light
Healing = TriggerHeal * MasteryValue(PriestHolyHealing,false) / 2

So, healing * mastery value/2

Duration (sec) = 6 but seen it as 7 ingame
Interval (sec) = 3
Cannot crit.

Thus you can control the amount you get from echo of light by keeping mastery at some level and increasing crit and vers. Crit is more rng but powerful when it happens. Vers is more stable, as it is applied to each time you can a healing spell.

At some point you will reach an optimal balance between all three stats. If you are too powerful, then that extra healing from echo of light is wasted as overheal. Too weak and that means you have to cast more healing spells to make up for it. This hits mana and you could go oom.

Having echo of light as the number one source of healing in your logs is very important.

So ingame I get:
Flash Heal = 3476 From combat log.
Mastery = 38.4%
Versatility = 9.60%
Intellect = 1489
EoL = 667 From combat log

Mathematics
Total healing multiplier = 1.05x1x1.096 (vers) = 1.1508
Flash Heal = 2.03 * 1489 * 1.1508 = 3,478 this is the value of the tool tip for my flash heal. Ingame the flash value will change. Also if there is a crit it will double.
EoL = 3,478 * 0.384 = 667
Crit is 17% or 0.17 which is 1/6. So 1/6 is the probability of a crit. Crit heal means a x2 to the amout healed. The Crit heal Multiplier.

Power Cost = PlayerBaseMana * 0.036 = 50000 * 0.036 = 1,800

Prayer of Healing
Healing = 0.875 * TotalSpellPower * TotalHealingMultiplier = 1,499
Max Targets = 5

1,499 x 5 = 7,496

EoL = 1,499 * 0.384 /2 = 287
287 * 5 = 1,435

Power Cost = PlayerBaseMana * 0.05 = 50000 * 0.05 = 2,500

Crit is 17% or 0.17 which is 1/6. So 1/6 is the probability of a crit. Crit heal means a x2 to the amout healed. The Crit heal Multiplier.

Flash Concentration
0.15 * 3,478 = 3,999.7
EoL = 767.9
total healing = 4,767.6424

Would still take two flash heals to equal or exceed one prayer of healing.

If we go with Harmonious Apparatus, Holy Oration and take the talent Prayer Circle. We can boost AoE even more by reducing CD’s of the holy word spells. Prayer Circle also reduces the cast time of the prayer of healing that follows. Prayer of Mending decreases the CD of the single target holy word Serenity. Circle of Healing reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Sanctify, along with prayer of healing.

Harmonious Apparatus
Circle of Healing reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Sanctify, Prayer of Mending reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Serenity, and Holy Fire reduces the cooldown of Holy Word: Chastise by 4 sec.

Thats with vers which is the raid build. vers and mastery. So with Flash heal you do approx. 4,145 hp of healing total for 1800 mana. For Prayer of Healing you do approx. 8,931 hp of healing total for 2500 mana. It would take 2.15 flash heals to equal a single Prayer of Healing. So three casts or 5,400 mana to match or exceed one cast of Prater of Healing at 2500 mana (you have to cast flash heal three times but two flash heals are close, very close. Still if you take two flash heals its 3500 mana vs 2500 Prayer of Healing wins). This makes flash heal about twice as expensive as Prayer of Healing if all healing counts.

So if a group needs healing you would never spam flash heal. Both from a healing and mana standpoint. This is for mythic+. All players are likely within 40 yards, need healing and there is no other healer. Thus a high chance for all/most the healing from Prayer of Healing being used. Even if there was a crit, it still takes a flash heal crit and a normal flash heal to reach or exceed prayer of healing. 3000 vs 2500 mana.

Sources: ask mr robot and world of warcraft combat log.

Updates to fix maths mistakes. Conclusions changed as needed.

63

Ok, but what about damage? Mastery does not buff your damage?

1 Like
64

TLDR - Cute babies.

65

Crit/Mastery is the raiding build…
Crit/Haste the M+ build.

You should not use any vers by all means in raiding enviroments as holy unless you are doing some really high mythic bosses that demands you to make 0 mistakes, some vers can save you during progression but output wise its really bad.

66

Raid is vers and mastery or crit and mastery. Or a mix of the three. Mythic+ is mastery and some crit. Emphasis on mastery. If you go only crit/haste in mythic+ then thats on you.

The output would be bad if you have little mastery. The whole point of priest healing is echo of light and holy word spells. This is from the mathematics. You need to balance your stats or what ask mr robot calls an optimal stat distrabution.

If you go to ask mr robots gear check you will find mastery (mostly) and crit for mythic+. Vers and mastery for raid. Ask mr robot has a graph for easy understanding.

You can see this is the mathematics as well. Crit (chance to double base healing) and vers (increases the base heal for every spell) increase base healing which then is turned into a HoT by mastery. Low amounts of mastery is not good for how holy heals. It means more mana usage to increase hps. Over time then lower hps due to mana shortage.

Haste is okay in reasonable amounts but haste can never affect the amount echo of light ticks for. Echo of light will tick every 3 seconds. Echo of light cant crit.

Priest healing just boils down to the optimal stats for echo of light. You dont want massive overheal but you dont want it too weak.

67

No idea where you are pulling this idea that vers/mastery is ‘the’ raiding stat prio.

As someone who has done a few mythic bosses, I can tell you crit/mastery is far more valuable.

Also Mastery isn’t that valuable in mythic dungeons, not saying it’s a dead stat but it definitely isn’t as valuable as you might think. For moments where we need a mass amount of healing, like when prideful spawns, you are better off relying on the raw healing output of heal, through the FC legendary, which is made better by crit/verse.

All the other stats increase our dps in m+. while mastery does not, and unless you can get mastery to like 85-100% (which isn’t possible right now), you can’t even throw out a few heals and rely on the echo healing while you dps.

68

You were told.

69

and you are wrong.

70

@Aellas

You have literally done no content that actually means anything, why is it you think you know so much more than so many other people who have had hands on experience in the content being discussed?

You baffle me sir.

71

My comments are based on the mathematics at the heart of how holy priest healing works. You can use that mathematics to simulate different healing scenarios. Come to conclusions about which mix of secondary stats are best.

This is pointed out in my post. Thus this can have nothing to do with my progress or me personally. Personal experience is deaply flawed which is way we have systems like scientific method.

What you call experience is whats called Anecdotal evidence. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses. Anecdotal evidence is considered the least certain type of scientific information.

I have presented mathematics, pointed to a model and can point to log observations of good results. That meets a reasonable burden of proof.

There is your cries of I’m better than you, your wrong!!! vs. a reasonable opinion. Backed by investigations into the mathematics, logs and references to s simulator that shows graphs of optimal stat distrabutions.

What this means is you’re going to have to make an effort. That means that opinion posts I can ignore because they are unsubstantiated. That means walls of text based on your opinion.

If you dont like ask mr robot, then take that to the ask mr robot forum and debate it with the creator. The last time someone did that was funny as hell. I will get pop corn.

72

Simulations just don’t work for healing.

73

Prove that statement. Simulations work for more complex systems. Why would you not be able to simulate healing? There is a simulator available for healing called ask mr robot. Why would it exist if simulators for healing dont work?

Remember the game is a simulated environment. If you create bots and control everything from a log. Even the boss, all using a private server. You will get a result, just like a simulator. So the game is technically a simulator. Upload the log to warcraft logs and see your average hps. Thus a healing simulator is technically possible.

74

Because you won’t be doing the peak of your healing at all times in any situation, ever. You mix in damage you yourself do, you mix in mechanics, you mix in actual damage going out at a certain time which is never going to need all of your resources - in Mythic+ it can vary from tank-only damage all the way to unavoidable AoE, and in raids everything has timers.

76

^^ in 10 characters.

77

First of all you are playing with people in your raid team sure the boss will be scripted but the people are not.

Second the target for some mechanics will be random and you can be chosen.

Both of these points can significantly affect your performance. The first one specifically can affect you greatly depending on raid set up. No matter what sims show, for example playing with 1 or more disc priests.

AMR does not reflect any actual encounter in the current tier when telling you the value of anything.

Noone is disputing mastery is very strong in raids. However stats are also not that far off each other in value either.

This thread is about holy not getting buffs because they need something. So I will relate this typing to that.

If blizzard are going off sim data then that will likely provide them results that do not reflect actual numbers/gameplay then holy is in for disappointment.

Sims will be very basic patchwerk encounters that have not existed in wow for the longest time as difficulty has vastly increased with newer mechanics. Any healer can look good on these when little to no movement is simmed.

Other healers have been given better toolkits, their utility and mobility make them more valuable for a raid. Holy priest has been left behind. Those other healers provide close/better HPS than holy and their utility on top. Holy has nothing stand out except one boss for GS and they are there to buff the other healers essentially.

They also have better survivability than holy priest.

78

@Aellas

Mate you can simulate whatever it is you want to simulate, clearly it isn’t working on making you a better player. You stick to your simulations that can’t account for any actual in game plays, and tell me how that lfr progression comes along.

You are a funny guy though, disputing with so many other (clearly better) holy priests mains about multiple things that you just clearly don’t know anything about.

“but maths” mate if you are such a mathematician and can calculate everything, and believe that those calculations can be applied to actual gameplay, why haven’t you done any meaningful content? Like none at all? Why is that Eugene Porter?

79

Hi

Sorry but I think in my personal experience doing M+ Ver/Critcs works much better than Critc/ Haste

Reason more DR (we are prist 1 shot =dead) and more dmg. Also you need a lot of haste to reduce a 0.1 point. I think with only 12% haste you get 1.3 Flash heal and you need almost 21% to reduce just a 0.1 point to get 1.2 Flash heal.

Critic / Mast = raid
Critic / Ver = M+

80

The haste is for damage also. Haste is definitely strong in m+ at any key level you should be doing as much damage as you can. The stats you take in m+ are not for healing only.

1 Like
81

In BFA S4 i didnt need any vers up to 20+ keys.
The lower the key number, the lower the team RIO AKA the more mistakes people do and there haste will pop you 1 extra heal and you will save that X player and the key together.

There are calculators that allow you to calculate damage in tyranical/fort weeks, if you think these abilities are 1shot for the key number you do then go for vers.

Other than that Crit/haste for normal keys and Haste/Vers-Crit for hard keys

82

I am 17% crit, haste 1% and vers 10%. Mastery is 38.4%.