So, peace?

Lore Story
41

The ones that have the Alliance, the ingame faction, actually being shown caring about the sort of “compensations” that players argue about in such a vehement way.

Because its nice to have all this wistful thinking and all, but if the story is one about Alliance and Horde deciding to give up grudges, be friends and sing the Kumbaya, then you’ll have to deal with it. Period.

Because you grasped at a point during BfA, and disregarded everything that happened afterwards and that has plenty other characters signalling a shift regarding who has the upper hand in the conflict.
I don’t give a crap about the Alliance seemingly winning at a certain point, if in the next addon you have Sylvanas destroying their fleet, and Anduin or Alleria stating that they are depleted in terms of military and that Sylvanas is the only one remaining with a strong army.

…and then we have Anduin stating that he can’t win alone, that he needs Saurfang forces to end the war.

Also, how does saving Baine translate into the kind of strategic victory that could enable the Alliance to set ANY kind of condition regarding the Horde?.

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Seriously…as if them having godlike powers in a Faction war game wasn’t absurd enough to begin with…and then you mention “balance”…

Typical how you close your eyes to absurdities so long as they’re to your advantage but point your fingers at “absurd” plot writing when it protects the other side from being ran over…

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It is funny I really can’t guess if you are actually joking or do you really believe that given some crucial points made in 8.3

I grasped at nothing,characters in the story from both Horde and Alliance’s side stated that the Alliance is nearing victory. Deal with it.

I just stated countless victories and you grasp on to Baine.

Saving many Horde Leaders alone is an indicator of having the power to force a settlement.

These characters and powers were established before the factions were even created.

I closed my eyes on nothing, this is how these races and heroes are. You have difficulty accepting that to the point were you are willing to revel when the company caters to your needs with bad plot and characters behaving in contradictory ways, the simplest example is Jaina.

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They were written that way in books, based on WC3, Tyrandé, and fanboys like you kept hammering on to stick to that.

So yes, you do close your eyes to bad writing when it suits you, twice you practically tell me so.

I have difficulty believing a “company caters to my needs”, when it constantly bashes my chosen faction, strips them of any personality and mysterie, turning them into a bunch of dumb goons to serve as cannonfodder in a few scenes of powertrips to make people like You feel beter about your supposed race of super soldiers.

So, “bad plot” indeed.

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Is that a euphemism? yuck books and an old game…These are essentially the roots that sprouted World of Warcraft. I am sticking to the premise they established.

Please provide evidence to when that happened. I would really really love to know.

If you don’t know the lore than there is no point in this conversation, even Zarao admits that they are quite powerful in his own way.

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Anduin raises his voice so all can hear him.
Anduin Wrynn: Right now, there are only two forces in this world that matter. One bent on harming our world.
Varok Saurfang: And one that will protect her.
Zekhan: So… what are we doing?
Saurfang glances at Anduin with a smile.
Varok Saurfang: Breaking the cycle.

Points like these?
This was the ending of the faction war. The point that had the Alliance and the Horde deciding to stop being enemies and become a single “faction” to stop Sylvanas.

Again, i don’t really mind you wishing things had gone differently, but the story is what it is.
The Alliance won’t be shown prosecuting the Horde faction, nor asking for compensation, because as of now, they consider them allies and part of the same team.

Yeah. They did so before Sylvanas destroyed the Alliance fleet.

If you want to argue about who had actually the upper hand at the end of the war, the least you should do is take the latest comments on it.
Otherwise, i could pick at random other pieces such as Anduin telling Saurfang that he can’t defeat the Horde on his own here:

I didn’t grasp at Baine. I just found it funny of you to list his liberation as something in any way relevant to whether the Alliance would be capable/willing to enforce any kind of terms on the Horde.

If you want to cherry-pick those instances that had the Alliance temporarily with the upper hand, i’ll remind you again that the last take on how the war was going was showcased in this cinematic:

And here Anduin is all but gambling the few forces he has on a desperate strike at Orgrimmar. After which, he says they’d be done.

Doesn’t sound like someone that has the sort of undisputed upper hand you keep on arguing about.

I’ll repeat, stop trying to paint your head-canon as actual lore.

Even if you so desperately want it to be the case, the Alliance wasn’t willing, nor really capable, to deliver the sort of “fist-pump” you so crave about further punishing the Horde.
Becasue (a) they obviously do not consider them as foes anymore, and (b) because by the end of the war they were so depleted they actually required of half the Horde to help them push through in their goal to stop the conflict.
Those are facts.

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Oh the " you don’t know the lore" argument…
You seem very selective Tyrandé, and I also don’t take kindly to your " old books, old game" remark, you’re in no position to tell me what I think, especially after making a huge deal about “absurd plot protection”, while wanting to benefit from absurd forms of character writing yourself.
You haven’t actually refuted any points made.
I also find it extremely ironic how you first bash Zarao for being delusional and dense and now you pull him into your post in defense of your power fantasies.

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Tyrande,Gen, and many disagree.

similarly to how they were so ‘‘depleted’’ after the biggest Legion invasion and Sylvanas musters and army and starts a war in Kalimdor.

Azshara destroyed the fleet. We are talking about Alliance vs Horde not external events. And prior to all of that the Alliance was nearing victory can you at least admit that considering it was stated everywhere in game?

The fact that I wish punishment upon the Horde is not related to post BFA my friend, I was talking in general terms especially post MOP when I gave the example of Tyrande/Malfurion/Jaina.

If you wanna argue about Lore and established premises you don’t post silly things like you did. once again I’ll repeat the example of Jaina,Tyrande and others were made 90 degree turns between patches and expansions for the sake of faction balance, you did not refute any of those points you simply ignored them the Zarao way.

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Tyrande (Genn isn’t really all that negative about it) is shown as an outlier that goes against what Anduin and the rest of the Alliance wishes.

And even her, has already shifted the focus from “the Horde” to “Sylvanas alone”.

Grasp at her all you want, but that doesn’t make the rest of the Alliance any more predisposed at prosecuting the “compensation” you want.

I don’t care about the circumstances that led to said eventually.

Point remains, that you took a very specific timestamp and argued that said situation was the one that prevailed at the end of the war, when its obvious that the latest information regarding the conflict (for X or Y reasons), painted a very different scenario.

Again, the latest information is the one in the video and the dialogues that followed. And in those the Alliance most definetly isn’t counting with the undisputed upper hand you keep on arguing about.
Nor are they considering the current Horde faction as neither an enemy nor a defeated foe they wish to punish any further.

PS:

You are either blind as a bat, or so biased you can see the full scope. Do you really think that the Alliance is the only one who is having their assets reigned for the sake of plot?

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This is the exact point I am debating in the last few posts.
Anyone with their natural senses after being viciously harmed to the extent of genocide,capital city destruction,massive casualties would demand retribution. Instead of you got Alliance Leaders behaving like it is all fine and dandy and we got World Peace.
I ask you Zarao does that sound logical to you? Has any of the Horde characters behaved in such a way ever? Has any of the Horde Leaders made 90 degree changes like that without any development?

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Cough

COUGH

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Yes. I could expand on a lengthy essay about all the times this has happened.
But i don’t need to.

Yes, this has happened. And in BfA. With several characters.

And the other side of the coin is having a series of valid concerns twisted and corrupted into senseless acts of violence that erase whatever validity they could’ve had in the beginning, while scapegoating it all into a series of characters that were turned into carboard villains for the sake of plot. With the subsequent story about players turning on them and putting them down as rabid dogs.

So yeah, this is how the faction war ended.
Alliance and Horde are friends, the mean stuff is Sylvanas fault, and Kumbaya.
Do not expect compensations for your losses, Blizzard already spent said bullet by making several characters bite the dust after dumping on them the entire blame.

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You and I finally agree on something. However do you believe that there will be no hostility between the 2 factions from now on?

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I posted nothing silly, but then obviously you are going to argue that way.
A ploy to make another look like an idiot.
The most glaring example is the Darkshore scenario btw.
It made the Horde look like a bunch teenage goons in a horror movie, while showcasing how bad ash Tyrande and Malfurion are, it’s that way for the Horde throughout allot of the Warcampaign.

So yea, some “catering” there, Tyrande and Malfurion were able to do some amazing feats in the WC3 RTS(!), but going that way…where was Cairne’s reincarnation? Why couldn’t Thrall level entire villages with his earthquakes or …oh wait even in that part the Horde is slightly gimped.
You do realize the big difference between a hero character starfalling swarms of undead in sn RTS game and a racial leader being forced to retreat in a faction war…
.?
The books were based on the RTS games, and I’ve always found them absurd when they litterally took feats from an rts game into a written novel/story… or do you like books that litteraly state you can see Resridge from Stormwind city on a clear day or some stuff?
Tyrande and Malfurion didn’t need to be written as Dragonball Z characters, they were interresting enough on their own.

And as for 90 degree turns, be thankfull that you’re deadwrong…Tyrande Always had her peoples interrest in mind.
Compare that to Baine, Thrall or Sylvanas Windrunner, whom all at one point turned their backs on their people in times of great conflict and danger.

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the only thing they showcase was the Night Elves reclaiming their lands and battling random nameless and weak NPCs. It looked cool but it did not show anything over the ordinary.You made no point here.

Because he was still being developed hes achieve immense power in the Cataclysm expansion prior to that he was a powerful shaman but not on the same level of other characters.

Again you make no sense since such character has starfalled swarms of enemies in RTS and destroyed Armies single-handedly in the Novels as well as the recent lore. This is what I meant when I said you don’t know Night Elf lore. Did you read the Novel ‘‘Stormrage’’ you clearly didn’t or you wouldn’t be making such outlandish claims.

Thank you for your opinion but it is still canon,same way I have to accept characters like Jaina and Tyrande making 90 degree turns.

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Okay Tyrandé…then why are we having this conversation?
Ironicly enough, you made no point, not to me, and not to Zarao, as I can see…because this is the lore; Malfurion, Tyrande and the Night Elves got their asses handed to them by Sylvanas Windrunner, Saurfang and the Horde.

See, you clearly pick the plot absurdities you like and take those,while arguing against those you don’t like.

So you made my point.

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Where did you see me state that the Night Elves did not suffer at the hands of Sylvanas? LOL.
I am here having a conversation with Zarao about Lore events which we comprehended differently because the company did not develop properly.
You on the other hand throw lore,the novels,the RTS, the entire WOW premise out of the window just to defend the Horde.

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Funny, I wasn’t actually defending anything, You were…clearly you’re agitated and not reading properly.
Maybe give it another go when you’ve cooled off a bit.

Because quite frankly at this point I get a strong suspicion you didn’t read any of my
Posts at all.

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How did you enter this debate with me? I never replied or talked to you, I was debating with Zarao.

You were defending the Horde by trying to prove that Tyrande/Mal and others are so called powerful which you failed miserably at doing because every canon sources states it. Read Novels like War of the Ancients,Stormrage, and Wolfheart before coming here and making a point about Night ELves.

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Get over yourself, please. This is an open discussion in an open forum.
I, like you, can reply to anything I see fit.
So far your strange question as to why I’m adressing you, further, the point that triggered me to post is right there for you to review…what’s stopping you?

I wasn’t defending anything, you were.
You were stating how absurd it was that the Horde managed to attack the Night Elves and burn down Teldrassil despite their powers, you said that was only possible because of 90 degree shifts in their characters and the “plot” negating their powers and capabilities…even supposedly “company catering” to guys like me(whatever that means)
Then you started accusing me of not knowing the Lore! And how Malfurion and Tyrande were cannonicly(!) Portrayed…so again, cannonicly your favored demi gods got their asses handed to them in the battle up to Teldrassil.
Yet you agree with one, yet argue the other…I found that ironic for someone calling others delusional fanboys.