You should see 'em with gear. They still hurt for a lot without the hunt, as long as meta is up (which they can keep up for a very long time). Especially when they play with a resto sham that runs with the earthquake legendary, it’s crazy as a healer to be facing that.
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Yea I know they can put out a lot of pressure but in the lower regions it was very easy for me to control them.
Or when I played with a warrior they basically got obliterated through their defenses lol
At least on my gear level I had more trouble surviving monks and rogues bursts than anything else.
You know on my ratings they warriors, bms and dh and what not are playing so bad that they don’t put out this insane pressure.
So when you play with ilvl 200 into 40k+ hp you still feel like as a dh you do negative dmg except for the hunt which still can crit for 20k even in this ilvl range. Still had the problem when it failed that I will be severely on the backfoot for 1.5min and get obliterated when meta falls
Probably dh is also more ilvl dependent than other, don’t know. At least with the hunt I felt I could kill someone.
Did only play 20 matches anyways, this playstyle around the hunt is really not fun to me and having little tools to outplay is boring.
While that is true (those with big damage modifiers tend to do a lot better when missing ilvl, or those with spammable CC like polymorph or the stun+cyclone combos), there’s also a problem when you play vs. those that outgear you, which is much more common below duelist ilvl.
You’d be amazed how pressure output on opponents can be determined by ilvl alone sometimes, if the matchup isn’t heavily in your favor.
But another common tactic as DH in 2s is to play with mana rift and oom enemy healers, securing it with stuns every time. Which isn’t as gear dependent in itself.
I tried that but I played with a healer who forgot to heal me when he was doing dmg and I just died xD
was epic hehe
Not quite sure you can play the mana game on lower ratings as people flop over randomly.
Even on my 1.8k mmr with my priest I think I didn’t have a single game that I lost or won because of mana even though warrior games tend to be on the longer side :x
I’ve seen everything go oom so far this season. Even the infamous mana lords rshamans. I very rarely go oom myself, most of the losses are due to raw damage/CC.
But winning on mana even vs. rdruids (a fundamental when trying to oom rdruids is to swap targets a lot, which ofc isn’t viable for everyone but it’s how they can go oom), or rshams, is definitely a thing sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. Shadowlands is shadowlands though, but in the end it comes down to the details in how you play it.
Oh actually Rshamans go oom very quickly if they have an incompetent partner.
Once they have to cast they suck their mana like nothing.
They are mana lords if they only use riperoni tide all the time which requires a partner / team that knows when to go in and when to go out and rotate cds.
I had a terrible time playing on my rshaman in 2s on low rating. Maybe I am just bad though.
certainly interesting how we have 2 different experiences. But then again I didn’t play this many games this season. Also talking purely 2s here.
Those are the only players up on duelist+ mmr these days, when playing with rshams. I’ve oomed an rsham despite very few healing waves. It involves a lot of well-timed purges on earth shield to accomplish it though.
lol they don’t even need “The Hunt”. Fully geared DH does so much damage that they can kill in a single stun even without this meme ability
they should change the gameplay of dh because the gameplay of this class is a shame since it inception
yes you can
no, I could be wrong with what I say because it is my opinion and it is based on limited experience, but I am not biased towards the class.
Thats the thing. They only have a meme Covenant ability thats saving them slightly from being abandoned. If NF wasnt existant or The Hunt would get even more nerfed, the entire Class would be dead and I dont think this ever happened that badly in PvP.
And that is what I am criticizing already since the end of BfA S4 when SL was on the Horizon. Everyone gets massive changes baseline, everyone gets a lot of things back, Cyclone, Intervene, AMZ, Ignore Pain.
Meanwhile the DH Class gets extremely gutted corewise and in return only gets a cheese strategy to decide Games and others get literally more things baseline back than they offer overall. Who would have seen it coming that that is going to end up terrible?
Oh, right, wait a moment…
The sad reality here is that you as a Rogue literally have everything, too. Does your Class even knows how to be bad in PvP ever? I dont recall that happening since TBC when I began to PvP.
You cant give classes lots of shiny strong things and completly gut the other.
Then you have the Arms Warrior >>>>>>>>> DH Scenario.
This sums up the WoW Community in a nutshell, by the way. Misinformation ontop of misinformation while not having understanding of the things you are complaining about. This is also why nobody, that plays this Game competently, takes the Forums serious. US has a few rank ones like Dilly posting but thats really about it.
But you’re apparently a biased, bad player if you say that your Class is going to be crap and you’re a joke on the Forums for literally saying whats obvious to anyone that is honest, all devalued just because of your Class Choice.
Complaining that your Class doesnt do anything but Mana Rifting and sustained damage pressure. Guess I was wrong and biased.
Complaining that your Class can only just The Hunt cheese and do nothing else afterwards. Guess I was wrong and biased.
Complaining that your Class is lacking, meanwhile Bloodlock claims DH has insane defensives and cc in the form of… a baseline 1m Stun and a crappy 45 second Paralysis alongside RNG defensives I died more often through double Darkness than it saving me this Expansion. Guess I was wrong and biased.
Its almost as if I was speaking the truth the entire time. 
Guess you are.
Literally this. Spec with 2 tragicomic rng def cds 
Like I said biased people and it’s pointless to waste time on them.
Yeah, I’ll stop with EU Forums again.
Sorry Shadenox, but save your time responding, this is all just pointless and nonsense in the end.
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The biais is strong with this one.
It is truly amazing how some people are good at deflecting the topic to whatever they dislike.
Also, if you’re so interested, the sole reason why Rogues were always played with success (and not always good) is because there was never a time when no Mage spec was really good, no Rogue spec was really good, and none of the healers that work super well with them were really good together. I’d even say not two of those ever happened together. So even if all Mage specs were kinda bad at once, or all Rogue specs, well, the other one would have something strong to make up for it with a good healer spec, and stun poly fear doesn’t really care about the spec damage output so you could get away with Rogue being bad per se, doing nothing but stunning if Mage and Priest were terminating people as long as CC lands (which … happened, but people like you remember this as Rogue not being bad ever, which is wrong, it’s just that RMP needs both Rogue and Mage to be quite bad simultaneously on three specs to really be kept away, and that’s highly unlikely - I don’t remember it happening).
We do come back to the notion of synergy, you know, the thing DH lacks and makes it look not so good because it doesn’t have a spot in comps.
And on a more personal note I’d like Rogue to be really good with other classes than Mage because being able to play only RMP unless you happen to have very dedicated friends playing Hunter or Priest and willing not to play comps that would suit them better is annoying to me.
Oh not really, yet your post history kind of shows that you were arguing for DH being in line in BfA when it wasn’t, and that is when you earned that medal as far as I aware but hey, what do I know ?
Regarding class choice… once again I’ll remind you that DH was created and introduced by its creators as an easy class. It shouldn’t be a surprise to you that people are less impressed by someone being mediocre on a class advertised as easy than by someone good by a class acknowledged at complex when you play high.
That was correct. Now you have to be honest with yourself and others when actively taking part in a public discussion. This isn’t all you ever did with DH and there was some … unjustified defense of DH survivability and damage output in the past, which, again, earned you your medal. A person with more understanding and knowledge might have chosen to instead point out the exaggerated strengths of the class and suggest points of improvements, but you were more of the “it’s fine that it’s like that because there isn’t anything else so it should do 2x everyone’s damage while healing for 40% of it and passively dodging everything” and that made you seen as heavily biaised and out of touch (at least at the time) with how things should be.
Well it actually has decent defensives. Insane is a strong word, but they are good. Darkness is a well known powerful team asset. Blur is very good, and while people are crying about it being “RNG” the damage reduction component isn’t, the dodge is just the cherry on top vs melee. Having a way to proc darkness around you while stunned is quite strong, too. Few classes and specs have powerful tools to help them survive while in CC. DHs have that. It’s a plus !
That is most likely a big fat lie, as we call them. With Cover of Darkness what you are saying right now is mathematically impossible with a decently sized sample, and that’s only accounting for one Darkness. Do the math with two, and then try typing what you just did with a straight face. But you can’t really be blamed, that’s human nature. You remember when it failed to work as expected, but the million times it worked right aren’t accounted for as it was … normal. I could argue that I already killed DHs through Darkness, Cover of Darkness talented, myself but that is so rare that I actually was very surprised everytime it actually worked and that caused me to clearly remember those times when things didn’t happen as expected while I don’t hold count, nor do I have clear memories of the times it did work fine. Just like you, it seems, but the other way around, because thay how the brain works.
A 1 min AoE stun, that’s not so bad. You also happen to have a 30s CD ranged umdodgeable stun, even if (I think?) it is a talent, it’s… the same as Stormbolt, which most people find super strong. You para can be made into a ranged instant Cyclone, too. This, as well, is really strong when used well as you can waste powerful healer CDs with it, on top or simply using it in the standard CC chain. That CC arsenal is better than others, no need to complain. Also with the damage output DHs being it’s a happy thing they can’t CC even more because the only way to survive them is to pump on healing which you can’t do from a CC.
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The problem is, people fail to realize that DH needed the leech and dodge to survive. Now, they are nothing and wet paper. 
I always said that Mana Rift and Dodge is toxic, yes. But DH needed it.
Same problem and issue Lichborne is not understanding at all.
Good luck.
One could answer that now they can’t do their PvE rotation with no chance of ever dying while doing so and have to actually use mobility to kite instead of only dashing through ppl with UBC, can’t randomly pop Blur when it’s a bad trade and get away with it, can’t tank anything with no possible punishment, and can’t live on their own while the healer is sitting Ghost or Bear. Which is a great change imo because in short it means that they have to play a bit more instead of having everything done with the same button.
Yes, compared to when they couldn’t die they may feel like wet paper. But maybe you’ve been used to something that you should never have had to begin with and now that you’re back in the mortal realm you feel it a bit too hard. Ever though about it ? It’s exactly the same thing with current Arms Warriors, actually, so it isn’t hard to picture. Current Arms Warriors will also tell you that it’s fine and they need all this (even though Warrior was strong before, just not OP), just like BfA DHs used to claim. In both cases, it’s not true, it’s people knowing they need it to be OP to have results because it allows them to play an easier version of the game. After all it is hard to accept that maybe you’re note regular 2.2, 2.4, Gladiator or whatever player and that you could do it this one time because your class or spec of choice made it much easier (you in a general way, not specifically you, you).
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In a fast paced Meta, high leech and dodge would really do very little to make them obnoxious as they were in BfA. Plus, most of what made DH so obnoxious was also thanks due to BfA Items.
I got no problem adapting to change, I mean, I am literally playing at the same exact ratings I have been playing before even though my Class got nerfed extremely from each Expansion.
The problem is that you cant give a melee leather the defensives of leech, dodge and mobility, and then take the first two away and expect the Class to survive or succeed.
Glass cannon part is okay if you are a glass cannon. But DH hits you for The Hunt and then is just a fly because all it has next to that is a 4 Minute Cooldown that is weaker than 1 / 2 Minute CDs.
There is nothing wrong with having to kite or play defensively as a mobile Class. But when that is ALL I have to do against nearly every other melee when they go toe to toe with me, then there is a problem.
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Not really. Reacting to high burst cooldowns with yours, healing half the damage, dodging the other half, and killing the enemy in the process is what I call obnoxious.
Maybe, maybe not, who knows ? Since those times you’ve made an effort to hide most of what you do, when you didn’t before, so whether that is true or not is uncertain, and I won’t bother actually going for a verification.
Design flaw. The class should never have had those in the first place, they should have come up with something else than high damage with leech and passive dodge baked into the most damage AoE and ST rotation.
Also eh, your class can dodge from the back, contradicting the basic rules of that game, ain’t that annoying !
But that is a lie and you know it. DH dors a lot more damage than most of the specs in the game. Let’s have a look at the AW C finals for instance, featuring that DH in top 200 you keep referring to. Shall we ?
The replay is available here : https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zD3_7DWZ3OI
If you look at the games he played DH on, well…
We have one scoreboard at 1:40:54, the DH does 1.8M damage, the other DPS classes do 1.2M, 1.1M, and 600k respectively. And keep in mind that he mostly hit a Warrior with some Dstance uptime, so minus 20%, and a Shadow Priest with Focused Will which is 15% less damage taken whenever hit by a melee attack, so uo all the time when attacked by a DH.
We have another scoreboard at 2:01:02, the DH does 1.6M damage while the other DPS classes do 1M, 1M, and 500k respectively, still hitting Arms and Shadow with their damage reduction.
We have another scoreboard at 4:01:52, the DH does 540k damage and the Arms Warrior 700k, Mages do 400k and 300k. DH lost on the damage meters… once !
Another one at 4:10:54, the DH does 440k damage and the Warrior 420, both Mages are miles below.
And the last DH scoreboard of the day is at 4:23:39, the DH does 675k damage (while being the target and kiting btw), the Warrior 600k, and the Mages 400k and 340k or something like that.
It seems to me that that DH reference of yours does a great job at showing that DH does absolutely insane damage, even outside The Hunt and Meta, which is quite nicely displayed by the first games that did last a while.
In any case the damage output of the class certainly wasn’t “just a fly” outside The Hunt, as those AWC games testify.
But then again as I said multiple times high damage alone doesn’t contribute to a solid win condition unless it’s even higher, and their winning condition with the DH was actually a oneshot with The Hunt alongside Combustion which is kind of “do absurb damage and when enemy is kinda not on 100% throw the oneshot stuff”.
So yeah … it’s indeed a glass cannon but unlike the other glass cannons it doesn’t bring anything aside from the cannonball so no one wants one.
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