The Sun, the Light and the vision

On the one hand, Elune remains a great mystery of the cosmology of Warcraft (Retail) that is not clearly explained in the lore yet (its relation or not to the Light, to the White Lady moon, with the soul-world Azeroth, with the Titans, and through them the precise relationship between Arcane and the stars and so the moons…) This mystery has the merit of being clearly stated as a mystery.
The devs do know the expectations about the matter of Elune.

Yet on the other hand there is a heavenly body that is nevertheless evident, and omnipresent, but so present that we forget its presence, and that the lore-enthusiasts seem to despise … The Sun.

This star is so despised by the community that most fans do not care if the SUNwell has a link with the Sun, do not care to remember that it intervenes in the Druid’s Nature spells or the Holy spells from Tauren Paladins and Priests.

But what is the nature of the Sun?

If WoW suddenly plagiarized Elder Scrolls, we could then explain the star “Sun” as a metaphysical breach towards the Aetherius from which the light escapes and therefore magic(ka) does too (because in this universe these two are in fact the same. Convenient.)

However in World of Warcraft we must admit that ‘Sol’ has been copiously neglected by the writers, only mentioning it as an aesthetic pretext here and there without really explaining to us what it is, without even describing what it represents for most of the mortal races.

Remember, however, that it is particularly important in two cultures of Azeroth: Tauren and High Elves / Blood Elves.

From Vanilla we know that Tauren myths consider the Sun, under the name of “An’she”, as one of the two eyes of Earth Mother with Mu’sha the moon.
Their lines of greetings or blessings (NPCs) include “May the Eternal Sun shine upon thee.”
Since the end of WOTLK, the “Sunwalkers,” an order of warrior-monks descended from Druidism (recently rediscovered by this race), have developed their own interpretation of the Paladin-type unit as a fighter wielding the magic of the Sun. The rise of this doctrine does not stop there, it has been accompanied by the appearance of “Sun Priests” (cf. Legion class hall) for the Priest-type unit, also referred to as “Seers” elsewhere. Notice - seers - we will come back to this.
In these classes, solar energy manifests itself through the Holy school of damage.

Balance Druids have been known to use solar energy in their Wrath spell (Nature damage), and the sun is depicted pretty much every time in their caster cycle mechanics, in each revamp for many expansions.

Finally, the Sun, under the name “Belore”, is very present in the culture of the Thalassians, in particular those who still live in Quel’Thalas i.e. essentially the Blood Elves.
One must have noticed that NPC lines refer to the same “Eternal Sun” over and over again. Kael’Thas had been given the nickname Sun King, and the entire ruling Sunstrider dynasty, many Thalassian surnames, like their entire kingdom is imbued with solar aesthetic and with references to his name.
Indeed, the whole thalassian culture is turned towards the sun. But contrary to what many fans still believe, it is not just a setting to look pretty.
Chronicles still reminded us (using older texts from the lore, perhaps the old description on the website) that when the High Elven ancestors were driven out of Kalimdor by the Night Elves, they abandoned the cult of the Moon (and therefore Elune) then, to draw their strength from the sun.
Their source of magic was named Sunwell, and also many official game content items and official visuals (that are often still denied by an misleaded section of fans (including, that’s a shame, wowpedia)) did recall its waters’ connection to arcane energy and holy energy - the energy of Light. Its magic made it possible to put the seasons in stasis in their kingdom. It undeniably had an effect on the flora, including the latest addition to the background: the mothertree Thas’Alah, ‘light of the forest’ in Elvish.

So much for the reminders.
But unfortunately none of these lore points explicitly reveal how solar magic works. You just call it? pray it - like paladins and priests… - You just capture it? - like a vulgar photovoltaic cell …?

Nowhere the subjective point of view of the mortal races is given about the Sun (other than the obscure tauren myth in Thunder Bluff that I mentioned above.)

None reveals the exact nature of the entity.
The spells and the items referring to it sometimes evoke:

  • Nature. Relation to photosynthesis? (Pokémon fans will remember the Plant-type Solar Beam ability)
  • Fire (NPC casters of the Sunseekers sin’dorei spells). The sun as a fireball floating in the Darkness Beyond?
  • Arcane (perhaps not directly but “the stars” are associated with the Arcane, it remains to be seen whether the lore implies that the Sun is a star like any other one or not)
  • Holy / the Light.

Finally, we find the same problem with the Sun like with Elune and the Moon: they seem to rule over several primordial energies.

But without being able to provide an answer I will nevertheless come with an old theory of mine, regarding the place of the Light in all this.

The Sun would be a huge ball - or solid block - of Light.

Sun and light - if you take a few minutes to think about it, that’s literally part of the concept.

The only thing that would have kept you away from this idea all the time despite the obviousness, is that you may have implicitly considered that magical/divine light and secular/profane light are two separate things in WoW.

And it is true that the former Human lore, and a whole part of the fanlore influenced by IRL Christian theology and of the Warcraft Expanded Universe of dubious canonicity, speak about the “Holy Light”. As if to specify that it is a special “divine” light, not the light of a candle on the table or… of the sun.

Here we touch the famous RL historical Christian distinction between Lux and Lumen.

But even if it means flipping the table, hang in there: it seems to me that this interpretation is incorrect and outdated in the understanding of WoW cosmology.

Already because the “Light” is “the Light” - at least in the Draenei culture that is much more advanced and informed on the subject, and in all the mortal cultures in fact: there is no longer any question of a “Holy Light” apart from the “rest of things that enlighten”.
The “Light” is “the Light”.

Let’s talk a bit about aesthetics.
The spells of Holy school - of Light then - actually illuminates the characters - in the canon of the game. The visuals are proof. Characters like Anduin amaze crowds with their halo of holy light.
The well-established and systematic color code of Holy spells endorses the white and gold color of RL Christian iconography (as a reminder, the colors of the Holy See flag are … white and gold).
These colors are also those of the Sun, the one in Warcraft like the IRL one (white containing all wavelengths, and the yellow-gold halo due to the atmosphere).

(As such, as I explained in the Sunwell controversy years ago, the author of the (fanfic) short novel In The Shadow Of The Sun had a misunderstanding and a misleading headcanon when describing a Lor’Themar who is blinds to the Light spell of the Quel’dorei Priestess.)

Now let’s talk about the troubling facts.
And it’s the incongruous race of the Kobolds that will enlighten us…

The absence of lighting, the absence of sunshine light and of firelight, causes creatures of the Void to appear. This is taught and demonstrated to us in Highmountain during Legion.
Now, the Void is linked to the Shadow, like the Light is linked to the Holy - according to the Chronicles (which is wobbly you may say, but we have nothing better for the moment) which dictates the general terms of the cosmology of WoW Retail now.
If the Kobolds are so attached to their candles (YOU NO TAKE CANDLE) it is because they are a source of light, literally - a source of light … which preserves them from the Void … which is the opposite of the Light (with a capital L).
I bet you see the pieces of the puzzle coming together.

In the Chronicles of Warcraft cosmology, the Light was placed next to the element Fire: yet the fire enlightens. There is the sacred fire. But also … torches, candles.

Back to the Draenei and the precepts of Velen and Nobundo …
The Light gives deeper visions to those who revere it. This is the case of the prophet Velen, of Xe’ra, of the tauren Seers.
But we’ll have to recognize that it just gives us the sight, the worldview right around a character, in Warcraft as well.

The Draenei shamans and in particular the Brokens consider the Elements as a substitute for the Light, as diffractions of it.
But, the mortal worlds are composed of these primordial elements.
So, to see the rocks, the waters, the sky, the flames, it is to see fragments of the primordial Light of the original Warcraft cosmos, separated and rearranged as a result of the encounter with the Void.

The Void (and the Old Gods) can certainly give visions, but they are officially described as deceptive, shifting, speculative, in short all the fantasies born in the absence of the clear view that provides a concrete lighting … from the daylight. Or from a torch.

If I lose the Light, if I turn away from it, “I only see …darkness … before me …” as Arthas said.

Velen speaks well of “torchbearers” and in the magic world of WoW, metaphors tend to come to life - then take them literally.

  • Here is our conclusion

The light that illuminates the mortal worlds in WoW is not the visible wavelength electromagnetic rays we know from Real Life. There is no such thing as “profane light” in lore, at least not that we know of.

We must therefore consider that there is only one and unique “Light”, a sacred light which inspires priests and prophets, but also which enlightens the worlds on a daily basis all those endowed with eyes in good enough state for the sense of view.
What changes between the regular and the sacred part, it is the way it’s wielded by magic, by spells (thus a use of mana, of spirit …) or simply left there to enlighten the environment.

The light that illuminates the environment of the characters is sometimes that from Fire - which we have seen is cosmologically close to Light - but it is often that of the Sun!

We can therefore -very logically- deduce that the Sun is a source of light, as a source of Light with a capital L, and vice versa, because profane light and divine light are One.

Finally, as an opening to Elune fans, let us add that the Moon is also a source of Light, as proved by the existence of the Kaldorei priestesses of the moon (and their sacred spells) and the various interventions of lunar light rays, especially under Tyrande’s implorations (the End Times dungeon fight for example).

3 Likes

I know too little about the lore so I can’t say much, but only point out 2 things.

If you take a loot at Sunwell Plateau, there are some statues, that look like they should be about Elune, but the whole place seem to resemble worship of some kind of solar entity.

Also, there is a speculation, that as any speculation is… whatever, not going to judge. But, it mentions some places and ideas which you can visit yourself and maybe later on tell us if you find something else interesting about the topic.

You can also want it in parts, there are 5 separate on the channel.

Interesting idea. It kind of alligns with the idea that the light can give only limited knowledge about the future. Just like a candle.

iirc there is a story related to a character named Uuna, that mentions that the light of A’Dal is too bright. Yet the light of a moonwell (Elune?) is just fine for her to see. Add to this the idea that a player character has some kind of connetion to Azeroth. And that PCs radiate some kind of light that help to protect Uuna from creatures of Shadowlands. And that in elven legends there is a connection of Elune and Azeroth.

And then you get… well, I do not know what you get. But maybe it’ll be clearer in time, what is the meaning of that what knifu said about the PC:

Xal’atath (Twist the Knife):

Hear me, God of the Deep! I have brought you the Opener… the Bringer of Truths… the Torch That Lights the Way!

Il’ginoth:

Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.


gl hf

Very interesting video. It adresses two civilizations I didn’t talk about here as they are not playable : Arakkoa and Tol’vir.
It was a bit hard to follow since english is not my mothertongue and some points of the global theory seemed too far-fetched or weakly sustained, yet many points were strong and backed.

  • Uldum and the Tol’vir/Neferset

A very nice and clever hypothesis that would explain Uldum specific architecture, yet of Titan build, still very similar with Black Empire, Anh’Qiraj and Nerubian aesthetics.
(I admit I paid few attention to this part of the world/lore since it seemed too parodic and silly to me.)

Raj, warden wielding the powers of the Sun, along with Ossirian, are very intriguing in the matter.

Besides, he may push the “raven vs falcon” representations too far in the analysis - not sure the devs paid that much attention to this, but it would definitely be awesome if they did.
I’m not convinced by the “raven” depiction of the other bird motif aside from the falcon - ravens do not have crooked beacks. However naming it a “dark falcon”, dark phoenix or simply “dark bird” is fine and still suit the theory.

I remember how I facepalmed hard with a friend, when we read in Chronicles 1 that the AQ complex was designed by the Titans in order to imprison C’Thun, because it is utterly inconsistent with so much things in established lore, and in all mess, the architecture in the Black Empire retcons/over-retcons it at once.
So the only way it could still fit in, is that the Titans just re-used previous or “precursor” buildings and creations for their own purpose against the Old Gods as the video implies.

Just notice that the Tol’vir are not the only “strange” Titanforged beings compared to more human-like ones, the Mogu are also.

  • Arakkoa

Again, very relevant to the Sun matter.
Rukhmar is kind of a sun god, he is a wild god counterpart in Draenor. Again birds figures are linked to the sun.

The parallel symmetry between the Apexis arakkoa and the Kaldorei on each world history is interesting.

Very strong case of solar magic used by beams and Holy or Fire spells.

  • Arakkoa and Trolls-Elves

I already had the parallel between Sethe and Hakkar which is obvious.
Not to mention that Anzu was linked to the emerald dream, like Elune is, back in tBC druid quests lore.

Weaving the parallel to the point when the Trolls would be the Outcast Arakkoa equivalent in Azeroth, from a Nazmir “accident”? This constradicts Chronicles 1 but who cares, it is already obsolete from BfA Zandalar lore. Putting Hakkar back in the plot is nice, because it matches back with Classic lore.

The lun’alai having a common shape with the Arakkoa is also a fine hint.

As for me, I draw a parallel between High Arakkoa and the High Elves during WoD. So by putting both ideas together we can… Well. Let’s go on first.

  • Lordain, the holy fire, and the Naaru

That’s a shame he forgot the link between Lordain huge fire spell and the Sun background during the troll wars because it is key. Who taught the Humans fire magic? You got it, High Elves. High Elves who left the Elune-leaning society to build a Belore-leaning kingdom.
(Maybe I listened badly but I don’t understand why he dismisses the part of the Thalassian Elves, as this would sustain the claim!)

I can see the logic of linking Naaru, Fire Magic and a Sun plot. But for me, the Naaru suddenly dealing with Humans is not a matter of “a ceiling of the Sun” being weakened, it’s just that the Humans gained acces to magic, just because Elves taught them, so they became interesting as a race to convert.

About Tyr creating An’she and Elune out of Falcon and Hawk gods are already proven impossible, since Elune predates Xe’ra thus Elune was there at the begining of the cosmos, way before Azeroth birth and the Titan shaping era.

  • Global theory of the video

The last part is also clever enough, but very, very unlikely and would imply too heavy retcons. I hardly buy the idea of Y’Shaarj surviving heads being turned into loas like Yulon and Hakkar (even if it would fit Classic lore of Hakkar being an Old God) since the seven litteral heads were stated to have become the seven main Sha (Anger, Fear, Hatred, Doubt, Despair, Violence, Pride). And Mueh’zala is not Wind Serpent loa. I can’t see Bwonsamdi as a raven god either, his back bones being former wings is moot, I guess SL will clearly state he was a regular Troll who achieved godhood.
I can’t figure out how the myth of the Five Suns can literally have happened (Pandarens would not have existed back then! but as a metaphorical tale about the main Old Gods ok it could work if one likes).

What I would keep then: all the raw facts about Arakkoa and Uldum. Maybe Yaungol and Highmountains too.
The Fire birds - phoenix - falcon and the Shadow birds - raven part is cool too.

  • Discrepancies

Now I have to tell why I am not following his theory.
The idea that An’she is hidden, sealed or confined from Azeroth on purpose as a bad and dangerous entity - along with the idea of An’she being a bird wildgod more or less ascended during the Elemental era…

For me, An’she is not forgotten BY the mortal races, he is forgotten BY the writers of Blizzard. It is an oversight and not a purposedly plotted story.

That is why I am not looking for in-game in-diegesis reasons of his absence.

For me, the Sun-An’she-Belore is there from the begining, it’s simply that few lore was written about it yet.
Just like Pandaria, G’huun, the Suramar dome, the Vulpera, were allegedly there from the begining, even if all this is revealed by the story later on.

Seeing Elune and An’she as lasser god entities at the same scale as Ka’alu (well, who cared about this poor NPC before? :smiley: ), Rukhmar, Anzu or Sethe… this does not address my problem:

what is the Sun that enlights Azeroth sky as a heavenly body? (and what is the White Lady?) Both physically and magically in Warcraft universe.

Is the Sun of Azeroth the same as Draenor’s? (ie. are the twin worlds of Azeroth and Draenor part of the same solar system just like Earth and Mars?)

Same.

That’s the usual “sin” of speculations: instead of stopping with a single assumption to fill the gaps, to add more and more “what if” into the mix.

Could be. The whole “An’she / Mu’sha” thing is strange overall. A lot of freedom for the devs with that one.

There were some lines in the game added from a decade+ old books, so, I think they retroactively update / add things to reuse existing elements for new stories.
Maybe originally there was not much. But over time it could evolve into something.

There are some interesting things hidden by the devs. Be it Uuna story, or placing of battle pets, that hinted at akir [edit: quraji is what I mean] being originally titan forged and then affecter by curse of flesh. The devs who work on the backstory do their job really well. But sooo much is lost in the translation into the actual gameplay form.

A bunch of things are. Like origin of demons, with a hint in the game that at least some of them served the Pantheon (green fire warlock quest). And so on.

Their experiments with anima did not reveal it’s value yet. We’ll see what Shadowlands will explain about it.

Sunwell Plateau seems to have some strange statues like Elune’s Handmaiden, but somehow related to sun, not moon.

Maybe. But there is a possibility, that as other tol’vir buildings, Hall of Origination is older than it seems. So there is a minor possibility, that Azeroth could be reoriginated at some point. No solid evidence though. But could explain why she is referred as someone young.

The main thing is, Y’shaarj being killed by Aman Thul and the way he was killed, comes from chronicles. Since the recent interview, void creatures unless killed in their void plane, should just come back there. Who knows where it all could go.

The only thing that comes to my mind, is that there were 5 naaru who were in the visions that led to the light religion of humans.

It can go anywhere from “Elune tricked / defeated him” to “An’she saw how destructive his power can be and decided to hide unless the risk or his reappearance is worth the try”. But yes, maybe there was no good moment to explore this story yet.


Overall, I think speculations are only useful as a hint at some lore elements to then go and explore for yourself. Some might be correct, some - not. Anyway - a fun puzzle to deal with.

When it comes to the question of planets / planes and so on, it’s not too clear. There was an interesting bit in another one of his videos, but for now it also leads nowhere. I can add to the list the planets that could be seen in Antorus. But, once again, what it could mean - I have no idea.


gl hf

Also there is that old Pandaren legend saying that Azeroth originally actually had 5 suns, but since the heat on the planet was too intense, a Pandaren champion name Zao Sunseeker (by the way the “Sunseekers” were a sub-sect of Sunfury Blood Elves very loyal to Sun King Kael’thas located in Tempest Keep (Botanica and Mechanar I believe) and so this Pandaren champion shot an arrow in the sky and destroyed 4 suns…obviously a legend but it gives more sun-themed flavour to the Pandaren too :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s probably not the same sun, considering that Azeroth and Draenor should not be in the same solar system (and you can’t see Azeroth from the sky of AU Draenor), judging by the time it took the Burning Legion to find Draenor when they had invaded Azeroth a few thousand years earlier already.

The reason Azeroth is visible from Black Temple is because Outland is in the Twisting Nether (think hyperspace or a parallel dimension (where Demons are native) connecting planets that are very far across the universe). Outland has viewpoints of different places in the Great Dark Beyond from a single location anchored in the Twisting Nether. This is the reason why all Outland zones have different skyboxes and you can see Azeroth from the Black Temple roof (as I said Outland and Azeroth are not near each other, but the Twisting Nether is providing a one-way “window” to see Azeroth).

Also because, when Draenor was on the last days of its life as a normal planet, the fel magic used by the Orc Warlocks corrupted the planet to the point (even before its destruction later because of the portals of Ner’zhul) that it was referred as the “Red World” and in “The Last Guardian” novel, before Draenor was torn apart into Outland, Khadgar noticed both the sky and the sun had both become outright red.

So there should be different suns across the universe, but maybe just like Elune, it’s possible they are the physical manifestation of a single deity actually, or maybe as you said, just a huge ball made of Light in the sky, or even a round hole torn through the physical universe peering and connected directed with the plane of the Light itself.

That is true, when it happens. But also so much thing are unfortunately retconned out, like, it’s obvious when I go through Classic lore that not only the atmosphere and type of universe have changed, but also facts that were roughtly erased: nobody heard again about the Zandalar Tribe characteristics as described in Classic (the demoniacs, haruspex, freethinker, vindicator, and the Shera Ali’kh) or the way the lore about Sargeras (“dark god of VOID”) and the Eredar was rewritten.

Yes everything in the thalassian art displayed some sort of worship, they did have priests before (mage-priests from WIII, npc like Aurora Skycaller from Classic, backstory of Liadrin, etc.)
We might admit that many parts of the Sunwell Plateau we see in game were in fact build -or rebuild- under Fel-Kael’Thas demonic rule, but we can assume that they still respected thalassian traditions at this point (simply adding the Legion touch of Kil’Jaeden face).

In the Sunblade troops we encounter “Dusk Priests” and “Dawn Priests”, the thalassian interpretation of shadow and holy specs. That seem relevant that the (sun) priests of the Thalassian were organized around the day cycle of the sun.

Right.
I always dismiss information that is only backed by the Expanded Universe of Warcraft, but I must start to take every data in the Chronicles with a pinch of salt too. We knew from its very publication back in 2015, it would end like this :joy: But somehow I was still keeping hope.
After all, I’m not fond of most explanations in it, so would not regret. Now we know a bunch is obsolete, from BfA addings, and partial (Titan-written) from the devs’ own admission.

Chronicles t1 did not precise this number. Where was it told?

1 Like

TL;DR: edit 2.

Ah, my bad. I forgot to double check ze sources and confused the speculation I skimmed over with the actual data:

Happenz from time to time. On topic of the value of the feedback and editing.

[edit] probably the source of this interpretation was related to:

visions of (1) holiness, (2) protection, (3) justice, (4) retribution, and (5) compassion

Edit 2:

In her dreams, Mereldar saw five strange, inhuman forms thrumming with holy power that filled her mind with the wisdom of holiness, protection, justice, retribution, and compassion.

© Mereldar wowpedia article mentions Chronicles 2 as the source.


gl hf

1 Like

Ah ok, now I could see the 5 suns story as a metaphorical tale around the Pandaren learning about that Human race having a contact with 5 Naaru and becoming “too bright” to be safe…
Or just a coincidence. Anyway the dates do not match X) Either the 5 suns were shot down to become Old Gods during the Elemental era, or the 5 suns represents 5 naarus by the time of the Trolls Wars, High elves and Humans.

1 Like

That is a common problem. Something appears and suddenly - not so clear if it’s a mistake or intention (like that recent sin stone about a night elf).


gl hf

Which one? (I saw a nice blue highborne skin that will be added, is it this?)

Nah. There was a sinstone in Revendreth that hinted that even though all night elf souls after Teldtassil should be in the Maw, some were not. And that was later fixed. So, that was a mistake this time.

somewhat a spoiler

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/spoilers-sinstone-of-a-night-elf-who-died-in-bfa-also-a-lore-problem/657367/87


gl hf

1 Like

An extra note that may or may not be relevant to the topic.

So, there was this event with human mages. And then, quite a bit later, when Dalaran was destroyed, I see this phrase:

Archimonde:
From this seal shall arise the doom of men, who, in their arrogance, sought to wield our fire as their own. Blindly they build their kingdoms upon stolen knowledge and conceit. Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control.

Which raises the question: where did they learn about such magic? And how far the traces would go?


gl hf

2 Likes

I guess that is some retconned stuff that evolves nowadays into a separate canon, a separate lore-version of Warcraft that stopped somewhere between the end of Classic and the publication of Chronicles.

In this quote, Archimonde spoke about Fel - “our fire”, the magic and deadly fire of the Legion, that were at this point in the same essence of Arcane (or Arcane was a diluted/purified version of Fel).
Either this or he was not talking about a concrete magic, merely metaphor, but I doubt so.

I wonder if Blizzard could handle a counter-retcon to fix this back into the current lore. I doubt there’s a way to link the “fire” of Archimonde with that heavenly fire of Lordain’s time, granted by High Elven teachings, unless this very same heavenly fire is a hellish one that the Highbourne kept from the first Legion Invasion time… (That would be quite dubious too IMO…)

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.