make all keys drop upgradeable gear to 441. make it increasingly more expensive the lower itemlevel the gear started with.
making all keys below 17+ beasically waste of time isnt a good feeling for fresh characters.
That would slaughter the purpose of raiding. U can clear +2s at a faster rate then higher content meanjng in most cases proven by the end of season 1
It bexomes far more effectice to farm +2s then higher content
This puts low levels / new players / alts in a position of simply not being able to get into groups due to competing against fully geared players looking to speed farm content
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i would argue it would improve those players experience. getting high level players into their low keys, instead of sitting in lfg for 20 minutes looking for a tank and healer for a +5
For people wanting to be boosted yes, for players looking to either get RIO or begin a fresh character no.
Deleting the games vertical grind is a pretty lame way to try and get people boosted. It kinda makes 99% of the end content completely redundent doing such.
We saw the problems at the end of season 1 when players were complaining they couldnt get into groups because of high end players tsking their spots.
It didnt improve anything for anyone except those directly benefitting from being able to mass farm the contrbt
When I go to a +2 key with a bunch of players who are in just dinged gear. They donât learn anything. I annihilate everything in our wake and often give the poor tank a tough time holding aggro (and in turn the healer a heart attack). Itâs not even a fun experience to be carried through, itâs just boring.
I like how SWTOR done the things.
All the maps are seeing-ble but in darker color if you didnt unlock them.
If you unlock a zone its just goes lighter.
Also⌠the most boring thing in WoW is⌠why you cant fly to a point which you didnt unlock? You have to go to Paris on foot just to unlock the Airplane location and then be able to travel via gryphon to there in RL?
I know you can unlock it via some stuff from Heirloom vendors, but the new players dont have this.
This is cool idea but blizzard has this weird obsession with if itâs not fitting the theme of expansion itâs not gonna be used
like islands could be good small endgame for solo people just like vision and torghast but we know blizzard
How can 4 people in 400ilvl gear have fun when there is a 445 person soloing that dungeon
I was with my guild the other night doing 10-11 keys with new people
I was soloing that dungeon with my 441 gear
They didnât learn anything there
Any piece of gear below HC raid or +17 mythics is already irrelevant, how is that any different?
youâre talking like the game is in perfect condition, most of the players who does m+ have zero patience with new players or people who didnât master their rotation, people leave +8,+9 keys all the time after one wipe so new player trying to get to a good level is always struggling, it does push them away because it doesnât give them enough support to survive in this toxic community. you do comedic open world stuff and then get into m+ where you have to play perfectly otherwise people will leave even in lower keys. pushing your own key is like a dream if youâre doing it with pugs because of all the deplations & disbanding. i donât think weâre playing the same game here 
World content doesnât need to provide options for players to reach more than 424 ilvl. Thereâs maybe the potential for singular items to go beyond that through some sort of specific linear progression but the fact you can get 424 items from 5 different world content sources, one of which being completely deterministic, and then have deterministic crafting on top of that for 424s is already kind of insane. Thereâs also two enchanted wyrm crests from the campaign and niffen rep respectively to get you a 437 weapon or two.
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Its never enough though. No matter what ilvl is obtainable.
I think the ilvl for casual play is pretty good. If you want to upgrade veteran gear you can dip your toe in content that isnt too hard. Not everyone will want to but it may entice some.
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Make the game more socially oriented, give new players incentive to explore so the overworld doesnât feel dead, make rep grinds even easier, stop overcomplicating literally everything by loading up your bags with crap (zskera vault items Iâm looking at you), make PVP more accessible and for the next expansion: stop forcing players to have to go outside of EK and Kalimdor
I forgot this: give the game some soul⌠add easter eggs, âuselessâ but cool locations, funny npcs, hidden places. Just add soul into the game ffs
Game isnt in perfect condition as i said prior. I think the core game needs to be increased in difficulty and the % increase to every scaling needs reducing.
I.e the difficulty increase is shorter vut the difficulty floor is higher, as i dont think HCs and m+0s do anything that rly makes players think.
And i think open world rare farms are extremely mundane ways to attempt to give open world players anything to do.
Yes but this is a community problem. Not a game problem⌠yoy cant hold a game responsible for how players react and i dont think its most.
Most players lack a tolerence for continous repeated mistakes, or not listening to information. However they dont hate new players. Ive played with many new players and tbh theyre better then half the people i invite who claim not to be.
New player doesnt mean bad player.
I do pugs and i time most keys i do, i dont have issues getting decent players, and have had times where people quit yes but very few times overall.
I am a hunter aswell, a class that has suffered quite largely in the m+ meta scene.
Games not perfect and i dont act irs perfect however its not responsible for player behaviour
Sadly it wont be, you have audiences that want to sit in one form of content only but want content to last from day 1 patch to last day of patch.
People in thise audiences who are after power progression alone, are looking for that to happen ilevel wise.
This is the problem when u change game directions as much as WoW does, during legion and BFA limitless ilevel progression was a reality and that design brought a % of players into the game with a demand to that style of content.
Sadly some things wont leave as cleanly as the arrived, while i think there are agreements in terms of open world content (it has felt very lacking this expansion). I dont think power progression wise its done by so badly.
I think most people in all catagories of content found themselves running out of ilevel progression fairly fast this patch.
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yes it is , if the game creates a toxic environment that leads an already toxic community to go worse then it is responsible. the numbers are out there, thereâs a %63 percent drop on active chars on m+ between s1 and s2 , itâs going for a record low too. hopefully theyâll introduce big changes to this problematic gearing system that gives you nothing but endless grinds with next expansion . otherwise i donât see the game getting any new players ,almost everyone around me who started playing retail quit after reaching 70 and starting m+ because of how bad things are , casual content is really bad, hardcore grind has many flaws but yet weâre acting like everything is perfect here and doesnât need a change.
thatâs because youâre a good player, even your replies here shows that you have more patience than most of the players in this game ,many people donât have that and they leave the group after 1 wipe because there are simply no consequences for that . new players make mistake , thatâs how they learn .
new player means they need experience to learn the game and the only way is doing content but nothing prepares you for m+ and when you dive into m+ you just face the huge amount of toxicity from players and the whole system is bad like i said, ther rng, vaults, loots ,the weird upgrade system , nothingâs helping new players
I dont think it should drop at a high ilvl. I think there should be a grindy way to raise the ilvl of the gear over a long course of time.
I dont do any open world content unless i have to for storylines, but i can see that people that dont engage with M+, PVP or raiding get to a point where they have nothing to aim for.
I am sure that blizz could implement a way for these players to upgrade gear and work towards a higher ilvl that would not benefit mythic+ or raiders at all.
Yeah.
Iâm geared in open world and rarely run into trouble. Some events like Suffusion camp is a bit tough if Iâm there alone but Iâm not doing those very often anyhow.
Iâm 414 now (slowly upgrading to 424 as I have a full set of Veteran gear, thanks to Time Rift vendor letting me fill out those slots that refused to drop, except for Neck - will be stuck with a 398 neck for a while).
But it doesnt. The only system that causes toxicity is PuG format. Its nothing to do with whats going on, its nothing to do with m+ irs nothing to do with gear grinds.
Theres a minority of toxic players. And becsuse their toxic. No guilds accepting them or playing witb them, so forced to engage in PuG enviroments only.
The game isnt doing anything to cause toxicity. Toxicity existed before m+ before mythic raids in WoTLK the game was voted the most toxic community lol.
This games no where near as toxic as forums make out. In pugging. Leading raid pugs and more, the quantity of times ive met a toxic player is a minority of those runs.
Leaving a failed run, is not toxic lol, the issue is, your throwing 5 players into a random enviroment together and wondering why personalities clash,
The fact you can PuG. Is the reason toxicity exists. 5 random players in a fully anonymous enviroment? Lol. Yah behaviours wont be managed.
Ive met just as many toxic players in gw2, in eso, in ffxiv, in everquest, in ultima. No matter the game, no matter the content, no matter the level of grind. Toxicity has existed because of pug enviroments.
People look so hard to find a reason for toxicity. They dont seem to look at the point blank answer starring them in the face.
Random players who dont know one another.
Disparity in ability and skill.
Completely anonymous enviroment.
When a players toxic where do u think they end up? Guilds boot them, communities kick them discords ignore them. Theyre all in the pug enviroment lol. Because thats the only place they cant be known enougu to be avoided.
Think this can be said about all content.
The raise in 10.1 was 23 points. We were 424 at the end of 10.0.7, and 10.1 raised the ilevel to 447, the ilevel jump was absolutely tiny, anyone grinding for power in any of the game modes ran out of ilevel to push within 3 weeks.
So yeah, i could see a argument for abit more of a ilevel raise patch to patch. I think they were testing reduction in gear grinds.
Tah 
is kind of doing a long grind. Heâs doing LFR to be able to use the vault to get currency to get crests to upgrade his veteran gear. Whilst he feels LFR isnât something he wants to do, I do class LFR as casual content. There is a very minimal ilvl requirement to get in, the mechanics are sufficiently dumbed down and there is a system to give you a buff if you wipe.
The other thing is the one off quests like the weekly quest this week to do four mythic dungeons will give you a Heroic level cache from Aberrus.
There are always little things to give the occasional boost to gear if players are willing to do the necessary. Content that isnât hard to complete.
I understand you feel it should work differently but I think the upgrade system is there for all.
Yep, like i say, its not something i would ever use as i dont really touch the content. Just trying to think of a way to keep more people subbed for longer without adding any FOMO for the PVE players.
not everyone is playing wow to âlearnâ or to be âcompetitiveâ.
most players just wanna get stuff done and watch their ilvl rise.
sitting in queue for 25 minutes to do a +4 dungeon is really a big issue for new players knowing nothing about the scene and that it will be easier to get into keys later on.
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