I mean your name says it all
2 Likes
Getting players to play a lot does not imply making massive, let alone massive and time-gated, grinds. Thatâs just not something the game needs to do.
In order to keep a player logging in all you need is to create something âstickyâ. Put perhaps far too simply, you need a mechanism that keeps the player coming back.
Now, obviously dailies can do that for those who prioritise games over other activities in life, or for those who just have a weak will, but obviously the best solution is to make sure we log in because we want to hang out - a situation where we log in not because we are compelled to, but because itâs a social network and we like playing the game within that social network, or because we want to explore, or because we want to unwind, or whatever it may be. Because we want to have fun, not because we must do chores.
Obviously making sure everybody have something to do means creating some sort of perpetual activity - a grind, a rating system, a scaling difficulty, a LARGE amount of trivially created quests (vanilla is a downright famous example of this) - whatever one might think of. It does not, however, imply creating long, tedious, mandatory gameplay sessions. There is nothing about the MMORPG that makes it be all about grinding mobs for months.
Heck, when I was at the height of my WoW âcareerâ I guess you could call it that this point, I was playing around 5 hours a day while studying in high school, and I was spending virtually all of that time outside the gates of Orgrimmar duelling people. I spent almost none of it grinding anything. I was just practicing and hanging out while doing work in a Word or TI Interactive document that took up half the screen while I waited for someone to /duel me.
MMORPGâs want to engage you for months. Engaging you is not the same as giving you menial grinds. Not at all.
3 Likes
Your argument of the third party websites is broken af, since even if they sell it on third party websites what they will properly do, if the seller is buying a new license of it money is made. If he buys a token of his botted gold - anyone gotta buy it - money is made.
You can turn it over and over at the end blizzard profits of it, even if the gold is banned due the trade or whatever - if gold leaves the server they profit, the less gold is flowing the more tokens are needed. If bots farm gold for several tokens the gold is GONE. Money made.
Btw nice you are so good informed about their trading methods, maybe someone should check your account too?
I donât think an RPG game without grind is worth playing at all, the end game is supposed to be one long winded grind for the best itemizations.
RPG games are built in essence about powering up your character, customizing it, and building it towards something you like.
The reason why the grind is hated in WoW is because it is implemented very badly and the cause can be traces to several things :-
1- Gameplay not fun enough
2- Rewards not good enough
3- Effort to rewards correlation not satisfying
4- Content not diverse enough
5- Unsatisfying progression
6- Lack of meaningful progression points
The list could go on, but I think these 6 items are essentially whatâs wrong the most about WoW, especially the unsatisfying progression and lack of meaningful progression points.
Once you hit the max level, there arenât many oh WoW powerups, and your character feels stagnant with little to no progress.
Basically you essentially can get fully geared within 1 day to 1 month, after that your character becomes " complete " and there is no reason to look forward to the grind.
However, you will still have to grind to get some minimalistic powerups that are super essential, which makes the players loathe the grind.
Imo, blizzard should fix this by :-
1- Randomize stats on items ( Like Diablo 3 )
2- Remove Raid lockouts, or give players 2-3 more times to do raids for loot or increase loot from raids
3- Add corruptions 2.0, but this time as utility powerups without huge power disparities ( Reduce cooldown on blink, heroic leap gains an extra charge, gain 5% movespeed etc )
4- Add meaningful progression points, and spread them out evenly, they should feel rewarding to reach, and players will want to pursue them, an example of this can already be seen in tier sets when you get your 2/4-piece sets, they should add PVP tiersets and M+ tier sets too, with each their unique tailormade bonuses ( PvP being focused on PVP and M+ being focused on M+ )
I could talk about this point a lot imo, and honestly its one of the most deserving to be talked about.
Think of the legendary cloak in MoP, Shadowmourne, the Death bringer trinket from ICC, the Shamans trinket for SoO, these progression points are important, and they add a huge flavor to the character, getting them feels good and getting them in a good pace is also important.
Items like the legendary cloak took a month or so to farm, but the reward was worth it, and the questline itself was fun, especially the duel with wrathion, while important items like trinkets were fairly short in obtaining them, but once you get them you could feel the powerup, and getting the 4-pc set took a while, but the powerup was very strong too.
Ideally, the players should have a fun grind for about 40% of the patch, then they finish up their progress with 20-40% of the patch then whats left are just optimization and replayability for the sake of fun.
i guess it depends on what content you do, there is one type of content i love/hate. i was a m+ pusher, can still be if i stop slacking. but in m+ the real pushing aint starting before one is bis. i think blizzard should do something about this.
make a max lvl in m+( max lvl of item lvl useable inside of a m+, scale it down and disable set bonus) = what m+ max lvl vault reward is. ( so for current patch this would mean max lvl 252)
or scale m+ loot up inside m+, like they do with pvp armor for pvp/pveâŠ
its so sad if you want to be a high end pusher and compete you have to raid mythic raids.and you have to be lucky as well with the loot.
i just wish m+ was more strictly skill based and welcome for all if you raid or not.
Other than that i think u made some good points, and i agree with most of what you said in your post. but not the more random stats thing unless said items has a fairly high drop chanse to begin with.
2 Likes
I agree with this to a certain extent.
I believe the more type of content the player does, the more edge they should have.
What I mean that it should be okay to get some more powerful items from raids / pvp and use them in M+ and likewise from M+/Raids in PvP or M+/PVP in raids.
But it shouldnât be an entire gear set, rather some niche items or specific set points, for example using Raid trinkets, PVP wep and the rest M+ items is cool imo.
At M+20, everyone gets 1 item at the end of dungeon, ppl are doing +30s at the highest level, thatâs 2 items per M+.
And Iâm pretty sure people do way more than 1 M+ a day, especially dedicated players.
You can pretty much fully gear yourself from M+ in 1 day / week.
So imo, randomized stats would add spice and something to look for.
Instead of just hoping that your weekly vault would drop something nice, grind M+ would actually be meaningful and spamming would be cool.
I think the worst offender in M+ gearing is that some stat sets on items are basically unobtainable from M+, and a way lower ilvl counterpart from the raid can be tons better.
For example, if crit/versa bracers is BiS for a rogue, and there is no crit/versa leather bracers in M+ , and there is only medium roll versa and high roll mastery ( which is useless for example ) the rogue will often opt in for the heroic/normal version of the bracers from the raid which is completly nonsense imo.
However, if stats were randomized, not only do players get a chance at crit/versa bracers from M+, they also get a chance at very good rolls.
To give an example of what Iâm talking it is something like this.
You did an M+15 and it dropped a bracer.
The bracers has 300-500 primary stat, 500-700 stamina, and 200-400 secondary stats to distribute, ontop of that it has a chance to give tertiary stat and a corruption 2.0 proc ( utility buff )
The die is rolled.
And the player gets
350 primary stat, 600 stamina, 370 secondary stats, the secondary stats then roll into one of the four known ones, crit/vers/mastery/haste, and the 370 is distributed randomly upon two of them, so it might be something like 70 haste and 300 crit.
To add to this, blizzard can add currency that can be used to buy :-
1- Primary stat redistributor
2- Secondary stat redistributor
3- Secondary stat reroller
4- Tertiary stat added
5- Tertiary stat redistributor
6- Tertiary stat reroller
7- Corruption 2.0 adder
8- Corruption 2.0 redistributor
This way players will actively be getting better items, and will always be progressing and customizing their characters, and effectively make the grind worth it.
Ofcourse imo, they should remove the boring grinds we have now for renown and other stuff or just make those for cosmetic items.
Working on your character and actively improving it is an integral part of an RPG game, the current system we have are mundane and way to limiting in that, accompanied with having to do content you donât like to progress just feels soul crushing.
Instead of having to grind korthia or whatever the current sandbox hub is, or reputations, or whatever, M+ players can grind M+, raid players can grind raids and PvPers can grind PVP and each can progress in their own respective route and have fun in it.
Likewise could actually be said about the outside world if blizzard bothered with it.
3 Likes
if u were part of classic relaunch, u saw bots all over. i used to gank several bot teams near Stratholme UD gate. it was like 5 teams running over and over again in the same path, not engaging in combat, not doing anthing, i killed them and killed them for hours. they did the same thing over and over again 5 teams = around 25 bots at one spot only. i didnt cover the whole world⊠now in tbc and som i hear its even worse. and i dont play it, i can just imainge how it is. and yes ppl buy gold from sellers because they dont want to grind. this is why token came also ppl dont like grinds they want to skip it. if ppl liked grinds token wouldnt be here even
I have all my gold trades and transaction in TSM for past 445days since 1st day of SL
2 Likes
oh we had this in retail once
gold farming bots in halls of lightning all of them lvl 92s
before chromie time it was odd seeing alliance lvl 1s afking in the tents near FP
thought you need to tag the enemy players/kill? to get honor points
Woa!
Alot of us might be bad at the game, but no need to roast all of us by calling us bots 
1 Like
do you profit from botting sir xD?
What about thot?
enough, 0P71MU3__W00F_8R, they know who really is under this fluffy worgen maskâŠ
you cannot keep real players in the dark forever!
3 Likes
And I remember back on the end of BFA Blizzard posted a huge blue-post about how the time of the Boomkin pots would be over! ⊠not.
Bots and dots, snots.
Still remember when I was doing Vulpera unlock line during BFA in Volâdun and was surrounded by prob 10 Balance Druids with similar names. I barely got any hits to any mobs. Was sadge. Reported all of them.
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