Unpopular opinion here, I had hoped for more of that sweet Shadowlands mountain of chores: Covenants/torghast/callings/zereth mortis grind. So yes, I find DF uninteresting in comparison. But thankfully for you guys, I belong to the tiniest minority.
This has nothing to do with borrowed power but just lack of meaningful content.
Farming islands all day for your azerite gear is not meaningful content, it’s a horrible chore.
I want there to be more content like story campaigns, more dungeons, mini games (like covenant games), more transmogs to farm, solo content like Torghast/Visions.
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Patch cadence would be good if they added more meaningful content.
Most of the open world stuff that was added in dragonflight is basically: kill this mob for a piece of gear you’re going to use for a couple of weeks.
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And there’s a very easy fix for all of that. Make it drop gear and not player power external arbitrary bs resources, so people can do it when they want if they want.
I would legit like doing a few mythic islands here and there even now if I could get useful gear from them. BFA’s worst mistake is separating the gear grind from the AP grind, not a single person with triple-digit IQ was involved in making that decision.
I did love Visions tho, some of the best solo content they’ve done at least on classes that are fun to play solo.
They’re terrified of giving high-end gear to world content players, so we’re left with useless patches for people that play anything above the normal raid and M+ 5. Continued pandering to the mythic raiding community will be the ultimate downfall of this game.
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Shadowlands wasn’t sacrifised like WoD. Stuff was cut, sure, we know that from datamining. Like the drust zone and raid (hence why that story line didn’t go anywhere). But ultimately Shadowlands only lost 1 major patch.
WoD’s only major patch was 6.2, one that was released almost a year after launch and then there almost no content, besides timewalking, for over a year before Legion went live. 6.1 didn’t bring any content whatsoever. It’s the selfiecam patch people are meme’ing about.
But so sooo much more was initially planned for WoD. The content that was cut from WoD was almost enough to make another expansion. Here is a list from the top of my head.
Warlords of Draenor cut content:
- Unique capital cities for the Horde and the Alliance.
- Garrison art/buildings for each major race.
- Movable Garrisons.
- A railway system connecting all of Draenor that was used as fast travel.
- The Shattrath Raid
- The Farahlon zone.
- The Zangar Sea zone.
- The Ogre Island zone.
- Yrel’s “dark secret” story line.
- The Medivh-Gul’dan story line.
- Class accessories.
- These eventually evolved into the Artifact Weapons of Legion.
- At least one Battleground.
- The Legendary Axe.
- The Laughing Skull clan story/village.
- Probably a lot more.
All of this was cut because Activision-Blizzard wanted to move to a 1-year expansion cycle. Blizzard quickly realized that was impossible, but not before the damage was done. So they cut there losses and abandoned WoD and moved all available devs over to Legion.
Shadowlands cut content consists off:
- The Drust Zone
- The Drust Raid
- Something about Zovaal probably not originally being the Jailer.
- Sepulcher of the First Ones - part 2
- This is just speculation. But i recall reading some very convincing theory that SotFO was originally meant to be 2 raids.
- The Devourer storyline.
- Also just speculation. These guys feels like they were meant for way more than what they ended up as.
Shadowlands, just like WoD, was mismanaged to hell and back. But this time it’s a mystery why it happend. The final patch of BFA had less content than the usual end of expansion patch. But despite that, Shadowlands ended up like a mess. But it is apparent that a lot of bad stuff went around behind the scene.
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There is more than enough stuff to do in WoW atm. It seems to me OP just doesnt like the content thats available, and thats fair enough.
Most people play multiple alts and blizzard have to think about this too. For me its boring to just play 1 character so I like to play more. I want to level another alt too but I just dont have the time because im too busy with the new patch now.
Dragonflight have been my favorite expansion so far since Legion. BFA and Shadowlands just felt like alot of chores to do everyday and it became like a job.
Besides there is so much to do from other expansions/old raids I need to get but I never have the time anymore.
My favorite thing is to run old raids with friends. You should try it too
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It’s a question of whether it’s meaningful.
I could go and grind reputation with a faction I’m already exalted with, but is it meaningful?
I could level another alt through The Dragon Isles and replay the same content over again, but is it meaningful?
WoW has a lot of content and gameplay that you can do, but that’s very different from having content and gameplay that you want to do.
I can do Pet Battles in Westfall all day long, but I don’t want to do that.
I can do Archaeology on Draenor all day long, but I don’t want to do that.
Dragonflight struggles with that, because a lot of the content and gameplay quickly goes from being meaningful to being meaningless.
The quests and campaigns are all very nice to do the first time, but it becomes meaningless to do it a second time on an alt, because it’s the exact same experience.
World quests and events are compelling for as long as you have more Renown to acquire, but afterward it’s meaningless to do any of it for reputation that you don’t need.
Storm’s Fury and Elemental Storms and Forbidden Reach farming is compelling whilst you still have gear and collectables that you want to earn. But once you have it all, it becomes meaningless.
Mythic+ Dungeons are compelling until you get your BiS gear or KSM achievement or both. Afterward it’s meaningless.
And it’s natural for content and gameplay to exhaust its replay value over time. The problem is just that the Seasons in WoW are 6-7 months long, yet the content and gameplay exhausts its replay value far quicker than that. Even without being very hardcore at the game.
And what are you then supposed to do for the remaining time until a new Season begins? Meaningless stuff?
I don’t think that’s a certainty. I would at least love to see some data to back up this claim.
I think most people have alts, because over the years you inevitably find yourself making more characters for one reason or another. But I don’t think that’s the equivalent of most people playing alts on a regular basis.
But even if you were to look at it from an alt experience perspective, then surely Dragonflight struggles in that department as well.
Previous expansions would typically provide players with an incentive to play alts.
Want to experience all the Covenant campaigns? Play alts!
Want to experience both Horde and Alliance storylines? Play alts!
Want to do all the Class Order Halls? Play alts!
Dragonflight doesn’t have that.
If you play alts in Dragonflight, then it’s because you want to play different characters for the sake of playing different characters.
And where I think Blizzard could compel a lot of people to play alts in previous expansions because doing so provided access to a greater portion of the game, then I don’t think Dragonflight compels people to play alts to the same degree.
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Which certain borrowed power, such as the artifact weapon system in Legion, can provide. So it definitely has something to do with it.
Sure. I’m not suggesting limiting a certain grind to one single activity.
It should be doable through basically every type of activity (like in Legion).
Fair enough.
Naming ‘more transmog to farm’ as an issue seems weird to me because so far DF has been full of such things; we’re earning transmog left and right in all manner of ways.
As for the other things you mention; I personally didn’t like any of the covenant mini games, I didn’t like torghast or visions in the slightest. So I actually do NOT want such content. Each to their own, I suppose.
Not so sure about that.
Fair enough; you can like what you like. No need to try and act as if ‘most people’ feel the same way though.
Fair enough but I was more referring to the fact that the game lacked content overall, not purely what content was planned and cut. SL did have one more patch over WoD, but it still had one less patch than prior expansions did, and Korthia is one of the worst zones they’ve ever made.
This is all on top of, as I keep bringing it up, having a much larger team this time. What are those extra people doing and why are they there when all the employees are supposedly underpaid compared to the rest of the industry, and they are still not bringing out extra content that’s not system-based such as the trading post and Zskera keys, both of which I feel could’ve been made by one guy in a few months.
I don’t think that’s true at all, I engage in nearly all PvE content except of mythic raiding because I can’t commit to a guild due to my schedules, and I hate scheduled raiding in general. 8 dungeons is not enough content to have for 6+ months, I’m already bored as hell from running them and they could have easily made a mega dungeon to spicy things up, even if they remade a big one from the past like Karazhan.
Alt friendliness and catch-up don’t have to come at the expense of the main content, and I wouldn’t even consider 10.0.7 catch-up gear as “content” because those tokens were a token part of nearly every major content patch so far. It’s not even good because you’re getting random drops for armor types you maybe don’t even have, because modern Blizzard’s entire game design philosophy rests on endless RNG.
Does anyone still enjoy rare “hunting” and watching their mini map/addons/chat to hit a target dummy for 1-2 minutes and get weak gear? Mechagon was one of the best iterations of that because of the jetpack, and because there was other stuff you could work on in the meantime including dailies.
Are we? We are earning dragon flying drake customization, that’s about it. This is definitely subjective but the actual transmog armor and weapons we got in Dragonflight are among the worst ever made so far. It’s leagues behind Shadowlands, Legion, and probably up there with BFA which also wasn’t great.
All Tuskarr gear looks awful, Expedition suff is just profession tools, Centaurs have shoulders and a helm, Valdrakken has one cool set and their weapons/armor look just bad and uninspired. Cosmetics are extremely disappointing in this expansion.
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Most definitely.
Are you actually serious?
Not counting the ‘regular’ stuff (leveling sets, dungeon sets, raid tier sets, pvp sets) we have received in DF: A large selection of various renown-related transmog, a whole new system put into the game - the trading post - with a big selection of transmog and that’s ongoing, there’s 2 new heritage armor sets, there’s 2 new questlines in 10.0.7 that both reward various things, there’s ‘secret’ content that rewards various transmog options, there’s the grey and white gear change. And that’s not even all.
Saying ‘that’s about it’ is absolutely ludicrous.
Definitely subjective. I strongly disagree.
I disagree.
But the main point is: Saying there’s ‘nothing’ just isn’t true.
It seems most of WoWs content is meaningless for you? Its impossible for blizzard to give enough new zones/raids/dungeons at the pace you are consuming it.
The nature of MMO is to do repetetive tasks. WoW have always been repetetive. If you dont like MMO maybe WoW is not the game for you?
I would like them to do content more like Legion expansion too. But im afraid it will turn into another BFA/shadowlands expansion if they try to do that again.
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T-T-Tah?
You… dissapeared
On what planet does WoW have a bigger team now than back in Legion?
Also, you’re assuming more people = more quality? That might be true in a factory line but that is just not how it works in software development. 1 talented software developer can produce better work than 5-6 average ones.
WoW is no longer Activision’s cash cow, better devs are focused on other places.
Isn’t it more nuanced?
Dragonflight definitely has quantity when it comes to transmogs. There are a lot.
But it lacks quality.
I bought a pair of shoulders from the Iskaara Renown vendor last night. These:
And there are more to be had, for example:
That’s quantity. But it’s not quality.
Legion had the Artifact Weapon skins.
Battle for Azeroth had the Allied Race Heritage Armors.
Shadowlands had the Covenant armors and the different back pieces.
Those all felt like expansion-relevant transmog stuff that was also of a very high quality.
It was compelling to pursue, to get, and to use.
Dragonflight throws a ton of transmog stuff at you all the time, but most of it is very forgettable. It’s not very compelling to get, and I don’t see many people use it.
Besides the tier sets, then Dragonflight doesn’t really have any “unique” kind of transmog stuff going for it like previous expansions had.
It’s not. Blizzard have pleased me quite well in the past. Both Legion and Battle for Azeroth had content and gameplay with enough longevity and replay value to keep me going from Season to Season with no issue. Even Shadowlands did a better job at this than Dragonflight.
There’s just not enough content to fall back on in Dragonflight to keep you engaged in the game for all of the 6-7 months a Season lasts.
There has to be more.
Ion has said in interviews that the current team is the biggest it’s ever been.
You can make of that what you will. It’s certainly a curious detail when held up against the game we’re playing.
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I mean, as someone who works in the tech industry. Being a “bigger” team means nothing. I know of start-ups challenging Big tech with their products. Bigger does not mean better in software terms. I know engineers that would solve an engineering problem 100x faster than a team of 10 people.
Edit: My point is, WoW is no longer the “cool” cash cow to work on. So the team might be bigger, doesn’t mean it’s better than Legion’s team. Evidently it’s not judging by the quality of work put out.
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That’s subjective. Case in point:
I hated almost every BM weapon look I got. I distinctly recall being so disappointed that I felt the need to overwrite those ‘unique’ appearances with a more mundane, but far better looking transmog.
Most of which I didn’t like.
I can name the two I did like: Kul Tiran and Highmountain sets.
The rest are pure garbage imo.
EDIT: Forgot the Mag’Har - their set is nice as well.
Most of which was edgy crap. I hated most of what Shadowlands offered.
I completely disagree.
I disagree.
I wouldn’t know. I don’t pay attention to other people.
I strongly disagree.
Sure.
I think the explanation issue Blizzard struggles with is that they’ve been making WoW for more than 20 years.
And most of the stuff they make is stuff they’ve made a million times already. Zones. Dungeons. Raids. Quests. Items. Monsters.
None of this is rocket science. And you would think that as years go by and they get more experienced as developers, that they also get more effective at making WoW and are therefore able to churn out more content more frequently.
But that doesn’t appear to be the case.
If you compare The Burning Crusade to Dragonflight, then the latter isn’t massively bigger despite the fact that the former is 16 years old!
It’s kind of the Pokémon criticism, right?
Game Freak have made so many Pokémon games over the years. They’ve been very popular and there’s a dedicated Pokémon fanbase.
Game Freak are swimming in money and success.
But even so, the Pokémon games still look quite low-budget and rehashed and the fans are not getting a horn of plenty when they get a new Pokémon game – they’re getting tiny marginal upgrades compared to previous titles.
And Game Freak Charges premium price and shovels money into the bank.
Game Freak and Pokémon fans, or Blizzard and WoW fans, it’s kind of the same story.
No, no it’s not.
Look at the fidelity of those shoulders and tell me that’s the peak of armor appearances in WoW.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
I’m sorry, but the playerbase responded overwhelmingly positive and enthusiastic toward Artifact Weapon skins in Legion.
The same cannot be said for Iskaara shoulders in Dragonflight.
You as a single player don’t tip the scales on that conclusion.
I’ll gladly discuss points about Dragonflight from a zoomed-out perspective, but I cannot see what there is to talk about when you narrow every topic down to your own personal likes and dislikes. Unless you’re trying to extrapolate your likes and dislikes into general sentiments in the playerbase, then the Lebowski quote is really all there is to it.
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Of course it is.
Of course it’s not ‘the peak of armor appearances’, but that’s not what I was claiming.
I like those shoulders more than ANY of the ones in Shadowlands.
It’s subjective.
No; it’s SUBJECTIVE.
Still doesn’t change the fact that it’s subjective.
I did that to show
THAT IT’S SUBJECTIVE
Are you honestly this dim?
In a game played by millions of players there will be people who like and dislike, care and not care, about everything and anything.
It is not relevant to illustrate that by using yourself as an example.
What is relevant is to draw some broader conclusions about the game itself, its design, and the segments of people who play it.
For example: Archaeology & First Aid.
I’m sure someone could reply and say that they really liked Archaeology and First Aid.
But that subjective opinion hasn’t detracted from the fact that those professions weren’t very popular, well-integrated, or compellingly designed, and as a consequence they’ve been discontinued.
With regards to Dragonflight the OP presents a topic to be considered about the longevity of gameplay in an expansion that doesn’t rely on previous power grinds but instead favors alts and collections, and whether the current content cadence is sustainable for people less keen on playing alts or collecting transmogs.
In that armchair designer discussion it’s about whether it’s a good game direction or not, whether the content is satisfying to the different player segments, if it’s sustainable for the length of a Season, what can be done to improve it, and why is it the way it is – both good and bad.
In that regard it’s just not very relevant input to get Tah’s personal list of likes and dislikes, soft and hard limits.
That’s blog material, not discussion input.
At least when it comes to having a discussion with me.