Vault of the Incarnates less than 30 FPS

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21

So have you literally seen their FPS on Broodkeeper and Raszageth?
Those are the ones with the biggest drops, maybe add Terros and Council sometimes.

Are they playing with addons? Weakauras for the bosses etc?
This can have a severe impact on FPS and cause huge drops for a moment when certain spells or boss skills are cast.

People in my raid with slower CPUs are having like 5-15 FPS at points.
Even on some bigger trash pulls in the current raid the FPS drop hard (like 45ish on my 5800X3D).

Also what does “run just fine” mean? For me it means at least 60 FPS.
For others it means like 15…

Why bring in the GPU now? We are discussing a CPU bottleneck here.

Without proof and with my own experiences from my raidmembers and friends, also seeing their game streamed with FPS displayed over discord or twitch, i have to asume that you are not telling the full truth here.

Did you actually see their FPS displayed while they were raiding? Which bosses? Which difficulty?
Don’t tell me LFR or normal… FPS problems starting to show mostly in Heroic and Mythic.

Heroic 30man is really bad at points even with one of the Top 3 CPUs for WoW atm.
Others in my raid with older or slower CPUs literally have their game drop to single digits or even freeze for a second or two.

22

Well the cpu would never be an issue depending on difficulty, it would be player scaling dependant. They use w/a, dbm etc. Im sitting on discord with one now and she’s telling me even at the busy feast it still runs fine. You don’t get much more intense for your system than a busy feast. Nobody is claiming they get 200 fps constant but their game is running more than playable. Ever considered said players just too proud to lower some settings thinking they have 4090’s and 13900k’s?

Means the game runs with a reasonable frame time consistency, not so much to do with “fps”. Even at 50fps constant a game can feel very smooth especially with features like G-Sync and Freesync. The major factor is frame time consistency. If your system runs at 200 fps and occasionally drops to 60 fps the person would feel that as a stutter even though 60 is still smooth gameplay.

Edit: Now on discord with 2 of them, want to join and tell them they are liars? I can give you the link privately if you log draenor realm and pm me.

23

Yes and no.
More players = less FPS.
But you are forgetting that in Heroic and Mythic each time there are more boss skills and sometimes more adds added which increase the load on the CPU even more.
LFR is basically less demanding than a 5man mythic + pull… many afk and pressing one button per minute.
Compare that to 30man guild raid or even mythic where everyone is using every global cd and increasing the load exponentially when all the addons and weakauras have to calculate the interactions.
That is why on pull with bloodlust and all cds your FPS will take a big hit, then go up again.
Also when there are lots of adds, the FPS will go down when people are aoeing.

There are far less people at the events now than in the first weeks after launch.
At launch there sometimes where several full raids (40man) in the same sharding.
Now alot of players have either quit the game (like every expansion) or don’t need the items and reputation from the rares/events anymore.

If you are CPU limited, which you are in extreme situations like raids and world events, then it does not matter whether you crank up the settings if your GPU can generally handle it.
My GPU usage in the open world is mostly near 100% (capped FPS at 141 because of gsync) and in raids it drops to like 30-50% or less.

The only settings that really hit the CPU hard is the viewing distance and environmental detail because they increase the amount of drawcalls on the CPU.
You can test this in Valdrakken for example.
I’m playing on mostly 7 in the open world with my 5800X3D and a 2070S in 1440P/144Hz.
Most of the time i get my 140ish FPS.
In a raid like the current one, which is inside with a short draw distance, the settings don’t really matter unless you are playing on a very weak system.
I mean even with a 1050TI in 1440P you will be CPU-limited there.
For raytraced shadows to make sense, you would probably need a 3070.

Yes, but WoW is not one of these games.
WoW feels like playing in slow motion when dropping below 50ish FPS.
You can literally see your GCD slow down on the action bar :smiley:
It has a direct impact on how your class feels especially if it has a fast paced rotation and many instants, like BM hunter.
That also means your DPS will decrease to a certain point, not much, but it will.
Even more so when dropping below 30 and less.

Correct. Though for me being used to higher refreshrates than 60, 60 feels bad.
I know this isn’t everyone but for me it does not feel enjoyable.
With my old Ryzen 3900X and 30ish FPS in raids with drops to 15 at Sylvanas mythic when the motes affix activates and everyone was aoeing that took the joy out of playing.
So i decided to upgrade for DF and got the 5800X3D, best CPU i ever bought.
Literally doubled my FPS in Oribos and raids back then, it’s insane what the extra CPU-Cache does in WoW.

To be honest, i don’t really care that much anymore.
Been here in the forums for ages, had this every expansion.
Back then people with FX 4100 CPUs where claiming they had 100+ FPS in a raid… insanity :slight_smile:
I mean, if they are happy with their FPS, good for them i guess.

1 Like
24

This is not you saying they play 25 man raids? :point_down:

Rude to rip off friends with a 6 year old CPU while there are much better options available for a reasonable price.

For a self-proclaimed overclocker you know very little of what causes performance issues in WoW. You can run with the lowest graphics on a 4080 and still run into FPS issues because of how WoW bottlenecks your CPU. I still dip to 25~30 fps in epic battlegrounds despite everything being set to low for maximum performance, and my GPU is basically doing nothing. I have the same CPU as you have. On a a 6600 this would easily drop to sub 15fps. I know because I had a ryzen 3600 which is still much faster than a 6600.

Game runs fine on older GPUs, it’s the CPU that’s the bottleneck.

They have added very specific optimizations for things like the feast and elemental/primal storms. I’d assume it’s at the cost of accuracy, which isn’t something you want to lose in raid.

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25

I raid with them thanks very much!

These came out of old work systems, my friends didnt pay a penny for the cpus or systems as a matter of fact but thanks for the input.

I dont have any issues in raids or on the most part open world. 5800x with a 1080. So maybe i am missing something but people here with equal or better systems having issues, it cant be the hardware if I have equal hardware and have none of these major issues can it? Or have i gone mad? And self proclaimed overclocker. I dont need you to tell me what i do and do not do in life mate.

Also never seen wow max out my cpu, never seen it do it on my 6700k either but when i had that it was one of the top cpus on the market. I suppose im just gonna have to get my OSD back and record a raid to prove the point am i. Thats what ill do, check back tomorrow for your points to be all proven correct and you can see my cpu 100% on all cores.

26

Seems like you either did not read what people posted here and in other threads about CPU-limit or you just don’t want to understand it.
So one last time for you, WoW does NOT use more than 2 cores, it actually uses just one main thread (combatlog, game logic etc.) and another for audio.
Yes it might be able to use more than 2 when in the loading screen, but that does not affect the gameplay does it?
That means if your CPU has 8 cores (no HT), you will be CPU-limited in WoW when hitting 12,5% + some extra on a second thread.
You can check that in taskmanager or other tools like core temp or HWinfo, MSI Afterburner etc.
Now first see how much your CPU usage is with Windows and background apps alone, then start WoW and go to Valdrakken which is very CPU-limited.
Check your CPU usage. Don’t forget that Windows is rotating the load through all threads.

1 Like
27

Thats not true, wow uses 4 cores. Check wowhead

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/world-of-warcraft-performance-benchmarking-and-troubleshooting-17556

28

All your interactions in the game (combatlog mostly) and all your addons are running on the same CPU thread.
This is what matters for raid performance etc.
You can not multithread something that does occur in a fixed order.
Just try to imagine what happens in the background when for example 30man in a heroic raid attack a boss.
All the spells and interactions, the proccs from trinkets, spells etc. interacting with other players and proccing stuff. The heal. The damage numbers. The debuffs on the mobs and players.
Then on top of all that, everytime something like that happens at least one of your addons has to calculate stuff like nameplates and auras or a weakaura activating, a bossmod showing timers and debuffs on you and so on and on…
Most addons that are important do need to access the combatlog for data to analyze and calculate stuff.
This is also the reason why big FPS drops happen most of the time when for example a boss casts a certain spell which interacts with players and causes a debuff which a weakaura and other addons need to interpret and calculate in realtime.

Why do you think they are doing a level squish regularly nowadays after a few addons?
One reason is because the numbers getting to big does also increase the time to calculate stuff.

30 
https://imgur.com/a/hbiL6DR

Really pushing the cpu to its limits in that 40 man group mid wb fight.

31

Did you even read the link you posted? :smiley:
It literally says what i have been telling you guys the whole time:

Even when the game uses 4 cores it doesn't mean all 4 cores will be used in the same way. You will usually see the "main" core with a higher continuous load and 3 cores with a lower load. If you will be looking on a widefield view of one of new zones the load on the 3 cores will increase (more draw calls sent to the GPU to render the frame) and when you enter combat with multiple actors (lots of NPCs or complex interactions of mechanics) the load on the "main" core will increase, quite often to 100%.

They even call it “main thread” too…

32

I did read it yes, and i stated what you said about wow only using 2 cores was not true, it uses 4. Was that wrong?

33

The point i’m trying to make is that all that matters is that one main thread the game is using.
All the other cores, may it be 1, 2 or 16 don’t matter for your FPS in a scenario with many players/NPCs.
It all depends on that single thread and there is nothing we can do about it :frowning:

34

And the point i was trying to make is, the 6600 can run wow in a more than playable experience. I, have seen it with my own eyes in intense environments. Is it gonna play the same way a 5800x3d or 13900k is? Ofc not nobody is staking claim that it would.

35

“Playable” well yes… you can play with drops to 15 FPS occasionaly… did that myself… actually had like 8-9 FPS back in WOTLK when we pulled the Lich King 25man on my Phenom 2 CPU :slight_smile:
Personally i don’t think sub 30 FPS is playable these days for me.

Like i said, if they don’t notice the drops as much as many people here and myself included do, then more power to them. Would actually save me alot of money if i wouldn’t be bothered by low FPS or drops.

36

Ive heard no reports back of massive drops like that. On a side note not sure if it was yourself or someone else who claimed i “sold” sub par cpus to friends. One of the friends was playing on a duel core 6th gen intel system so you can imagine the difference for them just moving from dual to quad which they got for free btw. One friend even got a gigabte windforce oc 1050ti along with it so yeah ive definitely been ripping my friends off. Not sure if you who said that but anyway just thought id make the point.
It wasnt you sorry to rant about that in a reply to you.

37

Wasn’t me. Just scroll up a few answers :smiley:

See, i hear it all the time. From people in my raid, on the forums, in streams, everywhere.
You know what most of them have in common (for some it’s just an addon issue), an old or weak IPC CPU.
I know at least two from my guild who upgraded their CPUs to a Ryzen 5600 (it’s cheap these days) and their FPS in raids increased alot and they are not complaining anymore.
Well except when a weakaura causes a big drop for everyone in the raid :wink:

38

I did after the rant though xD

Something interesting for me was, and because of the way wow worked i experimented with SMT off thinking, wow primarily uses one core so SMT opens up the cores to full potential bandwidth while halving the threads, it should run better. It actually runs worse. I have no idea why that is if you could shed any light on that?

39

I don’t remember atm, but i do remember that with older Intels you gained a few FPS with it disabled.
On newer architectures though, it does not make a difference afaik.
Though the E-Cores can be tricky i heard. You will need Windows 11 for a 12th/13th gen Intel CPU.

40

I tested it myself couple weeks back with and it was noticeably worse I found that strange.

41

It uses 4. One main and 3 secondaries with lower load, mostly draw calls.

And that’s why when we had corruption it went overboard and every combat could lag and any open PvP could kill the server :slight_smile:

For combat benchmarking I use old Karazan instance which can give reproducible FPS numbers:

And with a low graphical setting the flame effect goes down so lower-tier GPUs can be “saved”. There is no way to help the CPU if the world state is too big for it as it’s single-core limited.

I wrote that. Sadly they didn’t promoted it on the main page not gave any feedback :wink:

I have bit more on https://rk.edu.pl/en/world-warcraft-shadowlands-beta-benchmarks/ but no DF.