The current pvp is a garbage dump. Ion go away.
5 Likes
Its just fix fot giant power creeps what we have now. Why hide scaling then? Becouse when last time in Legion made Blizzard pvp scaling obvious people stoped playing pvp.
Maybe better question is why we have such big power creeps so pvp stops actualy working. Maybe if game wouldnt be so acessible trough so many difficutly levels we wouldnt have such differences between playres so scaling wouldnt be needed. Maybe is time to make game less acessible to make game better.
what ???
I thought Elias explained it pretty clearly, leading up to that last statement. So did Ishayoe above.
The huge amount of power creep is because we have 4 difficulties of raid, each necessitating a 15% bump in every slot, and that multiplied by the inflation in secondaries. (And ofc corruption, about which the less said the better.)
Because the devs have instituted this huge stat inflation, they have had to kludge an awkward stopgap that cannot work right for every purpose, just as you cannot map the globe onto a flat projection without distorting in one way or another.
Scaling is a curse. Scaling cannot be done right. Scaling is needed because we have so many difficulties of raid. (OK, M+ sorta-kinda as well, but it is based on raids.)
To remove the “need” for scaling, as the devs see it, we would have to remove a couple of raid difficulties - or squish them closer, which the devs have said they don’t want to do - or find another way to differentiate them.
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Templates and pvp gear both solved this issue actually.
PvP gear somewhat. Templates? Heck no.
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If they had solved the issue, would be be reading so many complaints about it?
But you’re thinking too small. PvP is not the only area screwed up by scaling.
My own position is that scaling is ingerently evil in any persistent world. When two players see the same mob with different health and power, or see another player with different health and power, the entire basis of the world is negated. But even if you can tolerate that, you still have to studiedly ignore the inconsistencies it causes.
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Because they had other issues. The complaints were basically from different groups of people, which is quite normal. There is no perfect solution where everyone is happy.
Yes, I agree that scaling is generally bad, but the thread was about PvP scaling.
BIG OOOF
Imagine pvpers farming visions for sockets to become gods, later learn it made them weaker. lol, f**ing mind games.
I don’t get upset often, i don’t like to “join/fuel” negative energy, but this crap is straight up a crime.
This is not okey. This have dropped my hope for shadowlands pvp real low.
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But it actually did.
When you see a very low geared healer in arena, you know you’re in for a tough fight.
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How does the scaling kick in with other types of stats besides versa?
I kinda skimmed through the video but didn’t see him try other stats. How do those work into the scaling.
Or is it about the slot itself?
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This. Scaling in a persistent world has a tendency to be very wonky and strange - and even ignoring that, it just doesn’t make sense from a “sense of world” aka “immersion” point of view. It’s just super weird.
The argument that all scaling is bad obviously is relevant and has deep implications for PvP scaling.
No, it just makes the game stale by removing the preperation aspect of PvP combat and making it entirely about execution.
If you want an entirely execution based PvP experience, there are thousands upon thousands of games which offer that better than WoW ever could. WoW’s niche, and what makes WoW compelling, is precisely not having it be only about execution.
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that class fantasy is called Rogue
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bleeds say hi 
Doesn’t CoS remove them?
CC, sprint, vanish says later
But seriously just be dark iron rogue and vanish for the win
We are talking about realizing fantasy for being ungancable
Very well. I hope my teeth can handle granite, just in case.
I 100% agree that we are in this mess because of all the different difficulties, it gets way too fast out of control these days.
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The annoying thing is, the sockets scaling was sort of mentioned in the past. In S1 people ran high ilvl azerite with low ilvl socketted gear because sockets weren’t in the scaling so you got extra free power. Seems their fix was to put ilvl on sockets too in the scaling but I had thought they had made some change so there was just a minimum scale and after that it wasn’t affected.
What’s funny is people also believe that the presence of a socket is enough for the scale, even if it has no gem in it. The difference for say full vers amp with vers sockets is probably small but still a pain, but if you run full gush you’re more screwed because there’s no vers to offset the difference.
The fact people spent hours to farm sockets is the real issue though. Their scaling should not be in arena or just be to a minimum level.
PvP has been dead for a long time now, what’s left of it is only kept alive by people that are super passionate about it and that is very commendable.
PvP has been dead due to many things but I think the most important ones are the roots of the PvP problem that should be solved.
The first and most important problem is
Way too many layers upon layers upon layers of gameplay modification in the game.
These can be summarized in
1- Scaling
Doubt it needs any explanation, the OP summarized its problems efficiently alongside many other side effects such as never feeling like you gain power.
2- Ability specific reductions ( Choas bolt does 50% less damage in PvP etc )
This is a necessity born from the other layers, because there is so many layers of systems some things need to be nerfed making some of these abilities not feel satisfactory or fun to use and reducing the oompf of them ( Mortal strike for example )
3- Ambiguous ability interactions
My stun indicates 7 seconds, enemy takes 5 ( I know talents / PvP talents / Orcs ) but this is one example, you can barely tell for sure anymore what’s going to happen and that makes PvP simply lame, this is a side effect from one of the extremely problematic PvP design I will highlight later.
4- Borrowed powers systems
I’m a warrior, not a tentacle, not my trinkets, not my gushing wounds, not my gettiku, not my twilight dev, not my Azerite powers, not my beam, not my concentraded flame.
5- Barely any form of pure damage if any in the game
As an example My mortal strikes gives deepwounds, procs gushing wounds, lethal strikes, twilight dev, infinite stars, tentacle, echoing void, trinkets, gettiku etc.
PvP Feels way too restricted, I mean the act it self.
In arena, if you play against a DK you can win sure, but does being perma 90% slowed feel good? no
There is so many restrictions that the game feels like CC simulator, instead of CC being a skill that you need to use to create opportunities, it feels like being CCed is the natural state atm, every one has it, and an abundance of it and nothing besides ambiguous ability interactions can save you from it which makes the game feel dumber and pointless, it’s less about skill and more about CDs and class.
Having " Immune to stun, immune to interrupt, immune to slow " etc is fine but having it abundant and so available just corrupts gameplay.
The PvP balance is done only for one specific target criteria and even in that target criteria it doesn’t take into account different sources coming into play ( Tank trinkets, Essences, Corruptions etc )
This makes PvP not fun, you can’t PvP at all unless you’re in that very specific target criteria.
You’re an arms warrior? sucks to be you, you only work when you have a healer behind you in arena.
These three problems should be solved imo, so PvP can be fun again.
3 Likes