That’s how majority of players actually play the game. At least majority of these I know.
People tend to group with other peeps with the same interests/outlook.
If you rush to finish the content, then the grind is a lot less pleasant and you just get to complain about that and then the lack of new content.
I don’t clear mythic raids or push keystone hero yet I have such people on the list since we met while questing in an old expansion.
Anyway it is hypocritic to defend borrowed power while not farming it yourself anyway. Cheers. I hope I gave you my insight on these cases.
I wouldn’t call rift farming with toy and macro a content. Farming callings for renown isn’t necessarily a creative way of making you spend time in the game.
No it isn’t… I farm it slower and easier… work smarter, not harder.
Because you basically don’t need this power to perform and that’s all about it. If you played competitive you’d need it. So while you think “it’s not necessary” because it doesn’t affect you it is harmful for everyone who actually cares about PvE or PvP.
‘If…’ - Spartans to King Phillip II of Macedon.
They don’t actually care about PVE and/or PVP,…they do however, very much care about their own ‘image and status’ amongst their peers…I do not…it’s an important distinction.
I mean you kinda tried to speak for the whole PvE community where I think some of the mythic raiders and Keystone Heroes might agree with me. Because borrowed power systems are abnoxious. Just because you don’t care about them doesn’t mean they aren’t a problem for majority of the playerbase. This patch will most likely end in the middle of the February. I’m 99% sure you won’t get all gems and conduits till then. Probably you won’t upgrade your legendary either. If these things didn’t exist and were added as a form of character customization you wouldn’t even notice. Let’s face the truth. You don’t even care about your gear. How do I know it? Since you don’t need it for your gameplay. You just need ilvl to enter LFR and LFG and that’s it. You don’t PvP either. No wonders you don’t see these things as a problem. Now imagine player X being Key pusher. He needs these things to even dream about making Keystone Master on his own. Keystone Master when you have proper gear and borrowed power isn’t hard and you could do it but before you can think about it you spend time farming Torghast, farming archivist codex in the rift and hoping for desired domination socket items and sockets themselves to drop. This is plenty of things you don’t enjoy to do. Argument that “it’s an MMO you have to grind” is a bit invalid because you grind M+ themselves to reach your goal.
Probably correct, so what?
Progress gets reset with every Xpac and that started with TBC, long before ‘borrowed power’ became a buzzword and blamed for almost everything peeps currently don’t like.
If ‘borrowed power’ disappeared tomorrow, peeps would just start complaining about its replacement… just like PVPers said if they got PVP vendors back it would solve everything, yet here we are.
If you want to play a game ‘competitively’ then you burn content, that means the Devs have to use timegating and grinding systems to slow you down, or else it’s all over real quick… as Classic’s launch demonstrated.
Really competitive players will have been using the PTR as a dry run for burning through the content even faster.
If you want to play an eSport competitively, then play an eSport competitively… better yet improve your fitness levels by playing real sport competitively…this however is an MMORPG and the real problem is the obsession with MinMaxing the most efficient way to ‘beat’ the content’, in the shortest possible time.
You have crafted the whip for your own back, so don’t blame me for the fact, you are not happy.
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It isn’t me who created “WoW esports” that had it’s anniversary recently but Blizzard by the way.
And it’s not that we lack content. There is a lot of content to replay on several chars but instead of doing it we are stack farming torghasts and rift for conduits. Back then I could play Shaman then try Mage, Warrior and now if you want to do it you have to farm borrowed power again. Technically they are locking content from us.
Also if they can’t design the game themselves that’s the reason why we tend to go on PTR and test it. I remind you that most of us said that locking covenants is a bad idea but devs said “not to worry because there will be 0,5 % of the performance difference between them”. Guess what Bonedust Brew does 40% of the Monk damage in M+ (did it on purpose to show you it’s not only PvP issue). Devs aren’t really delivering perfect product so it’s not that our complaints have no background. If they stop pretending they know better and listen to feedback I can guarantee you that less people will complain. It’s like Lauren S. Hissrich complaining about toxicity of Witcher fans who expected adaptation of Witcher. Instead she just wrote her own story where she took names of characters but they even have different personalities. If customers expect A but get B then no wonders they are disappointed.
Baking offense and defense into a single stat is as dumb of a design choice as putting primary stats on shields.
Of course versatility is overpowered especially in this day and age when it’s the only stat that gives you magic resistance.
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You do realise that lots of stuff has not been account wide since WoW started.
Before Transmogs existed you had to farm the stuff on each character, then store it in your bank…Mounts again had to be farmed on each and every character, never mind if they were Seasonal or very Rare drops…Rep had to earned on every character, some factions took an enormous amount of effort with only a couple of quests farmable, giving minimal progress.
Many of the things the Devs were ‘warned’ about, were there to slow content burn and therefore were obviously not going to be changed… some things demanded by one demographic, were in direct conflict with another demographic…ie Old skool RPG ‘Meaningful choice’ was anathema to MinMaxers…other things were not nearly as much spiteful fun as one demographic had hoped for…ie. Elitists taking loot away from Casuals, only to discover they had shot themselves in both Elitist feet in the process.
They weren’t account wide but were changed for a reason. Even gladiator mounts are account wide now.
Also RPG meaningful choice isn’t about locking covenant but plot related choices. RPG games are my favourite type of games and the choice is always changing the ending or events in the game. Locked covenants had 0 influence on storyline or the outcome. They were just stupid power limitation. Maybe use your brain instead of devs phrases that aren’t always correct. Also what loot min maxers took from players I’m curious. With personal loot right now there is no way of taking someone’s loot in the game so I don’t know what delusion is this.
Stop antagonizing min maxers because some youtubers do. Just because someone puts effort in the game it doesn’t mean he is bad for the game. Actually someone who just has bis gear doesn’t have to be min maxer. Real min maxers are world first tryhards are these who make armor type runs for world first race and they are actually you guessed it PvE players. To clear content and get bis gear you don’t have to be 1% of the top players. I know semi casuals who are doing mythic raid content just because they try to do the chores and while they don’t enjoy these gatekeeping grinds they might enjoy raiding itself. They clear the content during whole patch lifespan not in the first month. These gatekeeping craps are actually there to slow down these world first tryhards who would have bis gear in the first week or two of the game playing 16 hours a day and spending billions of golf sponsored by org on AH. Do you really want to gatekeep things just for them?
Didn’t bother me at all… MinMaxers on the other hand went ballistic, because they couldn’t change Covenant and all their soulbinds, between phases of a Raid Boss fight
Nobody changes covenant or soulbind between bossem unless it’s mythic raid progression and your guild struggles. You are spreading myths that are far away from facts. It wasn’t about swapping covenant for bosses but about playing different specs and content. Some covenant spells are useless on certain specs. I can’t imagine Venthyr being good for Restoration Druid in any content because that’s how it’s designed. Venthyr Holy Paladin is designed in the way though you can skip raid mechanics or just pull insane amount of mobs and do fine. It’s design flaw of the system and again a lie about 0,5% performance.
It was more about if I want to play spec x or content y then you need certain covenant. And it was and is a thing. There is huge power gap between bis covenant and sub optimal one. Proper covenant may help you clear a key +5 levels higher, kill a mythic boss you wouldn’t be able to or just get free few hundreds rating. If you want to achieve something in the game then you have to care about it even as average player.
Correct…we saw what happens when the Devs don’t do that, in Classic and again in Classic TBC…and it wasn’t just World Firsts.
Timegating does not bother me because I’m not in a hurry.
Mythic0 not being available thru LFD on the other hand is absolutely pointless and frankly an insult to Blizz’s sub-paying customers.
What happened? Few guys cleared PvE content in few hours. How does it affect average player who will clear this raid in few weeks? Just let these tryhards do this and average players enjoy their game.
Conduit upgrades or sockets are not needed for simple CE raiding. It’s needed when you want to push hall of fame spots, or wf because you need every little advantage but for your average late-CE guild those are absolutely not needed.
For example sockets:
You can get 3 sockets for cloth from rep, that’s 3x16, 48 stat. My best secondary stat is mastery which gives around 2 dps /ea. So with that new stat budget, I’d get ~100 dps. I sim for 10k+, so it’s around 1% upgrade. It’s not needed, this late you will wipe on a boss because you fail at mechanics and not because of the lack of dps / hps.
What people needs to understand is that your decision making (skill) is the biggest part of your dps. These 1% upgrades are totally unnecessary.
Also borrowed power is needed for a simple reason. People get bored and quit if they’re playing the same abilities for multiple years. Blizzard needs to change classes and specs because otherwise it would be just boring after the second expansion with exactly the same gameplay.
If they would add permanent things, not “borrowed” then you’d need to have a prune every other expac. In MoP literally every spec had everything. Stuns, healing, shields, etc… What is the point of playing a fire mage if I can have cauterize on frost… or deep frezee on fire. Also community hated losing spells… with the borrower power you know how it will end from the start.
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Nope, I would have rolled Nightfae regardless, just for the aesthetic… and nothing would have persuaded me to roll Necrolord, regardless of powergap between bis Covenenat and sub-optimal, if Necrolord was bis…I just didn’t like Maldraxxus as a zone.
Of course it’s not mandatory but if something is an upgrade you want to have it. And all sockets are 2% stats while for some specs it’s not a big deal for some it is. If you don’t have enough haste you can’t land DB → Sheep or Ring of Frost. And still if you really pogress with a group you want every possible advantage as if people put effort it boosts morale.
Also I agree that you can’t have the same thing every patch but as you said change classes and specs instead of adding borrowed powers. Some specs have the same problems and flaws that are untouched because devs are too busy failing at balancing borrowed power instead of making design changes to specs and talents.
Nope, average players were clearing the content as quick as try-hards, there was nothing to stop them and plenty of guides how to achieve optimal play, online.
Fact is, gamers have changed in the years since those Xpacs ware current… you have to remember that PEGI qualifying kids for Shadowlands were not born when WotLK launched, much less TBC or Vanilla, so they play it like modern content…and the original players know the content inside out, which they didn’t, back in the day.