I find it so easy to simply say: I need to L2P to go further. This is as far as I can play my spec, and this is as far as it can take me in the game. X Rio, Y boss in the raid, or Z rating.
Why cant people simply accept that fact? We cant be a pro at everything all the time. And its not Blizzard’s job to dumb down absolutely everything to 3 buttons so people can do “top damage” with half the effort.
I dont get it.
I expressly made sure to include the word “so much”, meaning I appealed to creating and preserving playstyle choice. That whole conversation is actually much more multi-layered and nuanced than just class or spec design or number of buttons. It is game and encounter design / dungeon design that has led to the classes being how they are right now.
I am not proposing to abandon the current design completely, but no change can be seen in a vacuum.
I know where you are coming from so when you use “that is how it should be” makes sense, but the point is that if or when the developers do go to the drawing board with every class and everything about the current game, it could mean that DPSing to the same extent as healers do now would just no longer be possible because making mana matter more would probably also mean that higher level content would just be stressful on mana. (Note that “to the same extent” does not mean “not viable” or “from 100 to 0”)
I am going to continue in the other thread you replied me in 
They have a one button rotation now. They’ll use it as an excute to continue to bloat classes to the point they’re a nightmare to play without them.
That already exists then. Why take it even further when its unnecessary.
Let me remind you of the reality:
So it’s preserving playstyle choice in fact. And in the case of RShaman, it does NOTHING of mention. Unlike Priests and Monks that DO have that extra feedback from DPS/HPS that gives them that little bit extra “fun” to speks that would otherwise be as boring as RShaman is.
NO. I am coming from this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v972Q6K9uGs&t=1310s
PLEASE… how much more do you want to nerf things?
The #1 issue with healing is power, and dungeon tuning. Literally that. Our CDs are too powerful (across the board for all healers) forcing Blizzard to do spiky damage in order to challenge us.
Thats IT. Its not button bloat ! And its definitely not DPS.
Healing is considered “hard” because the HP of people is yoyoing from 100 to 0 in seconds. Not because we have “too many buttons” or whatever you want to call that.
That’s an erudite point.
Don’t worry, some day someone at Blizzard will decide to start doing M+ they will finally start seeing the issues. Maybe we might start getting the attention raids get.
You see it in raids as well. In fact, you see it in raids more clearly and obvious than in M+.
One thing I thought Blizzard did right in Legion, was that they emphasized spec fantasy over class fantasy.
You didn’t play a Priest, you played a Shadow Priest.
You didn’t play a Warrior, you played a Fury Warrior.
I liked that design, because it got rid of a lot of unnecessary buttons that most specs didnt really use but still had access to because they were class abilities. And it made the theme of each spec much more concentrated.
But the community wanted to have class fantasy, so Blizzard reverted course and Frost Mages ended up with a sprinkling of fire and arcane abilities that they really didn’t need before but were now given anyway, under the guise of “class fantasy”.
And for the same reason a Holy Priest has Shadow Word: Pain and Mind Blast, because "class fantasy " apparently, even though it doesn’t really do much good for the gameplay design except litter the spec with extra buttons.
I think Blizzard would do themselves a great favor if they went back to spec fantasy over class fantasy.
But I also know that the community doesn’t want that, so it won’t happen.
Yeah but I don’t thi k people are complaining about the class spells though. Idk about Hpriest (do they even use Mind Blast?), but paladins and warriors don’t use shield bash and SotR unless they are in tank spec, fury warriors don’t really use slam either, and pretty sure frost magrs don’t use fire blast or arcane explosion. From what I see is people are complaining about ability modifiers. For example having to having to lign up passives/procs to make your frost bolt do 10 000% more dmg.
I don’t think it’s a complaint that’s reduced to a narrow issue, certainly not if we talk about people in a broader term.
So who’s the content tuned around? Groups who avoid all avoidable damage? What ilvl?
If I need all my healing globals to keep my group alive in a 10, then go back 2 weeks later stronger and more prepared for the dungeon and people have more gear and take less damage do I still need all my gcds to heal?
Or do we tune healing around players being competent and capable of consistently mitigating outgoing damage, because in that case most groups will just fail.
Good healers need to use less healing globals than bad healers, good groups put less pressure on healers than bad ones. You fundamentally cannot change that.
Should we tell him guys?
Just play classic? Not a single dps wants that. It’s a bad design not fit for modern gameplay.
Healer mana matters, unless your spec name is disc priest.
They could make healers more similar to preservation evokers and Discipline Priest and less similar to bloated resto shamans 
That’s not how mana breaks work in keys though, there’s little to no downtime. The healers just drinks out of combat then catches up on the pull when they’ve got enough.
If I need 30 healing gcds to handle X at Y ilvl, when I have more ilvl I will need less gcds. I will want to use them on something that isn’t healing. If my group is stunning / kicking everything and the result is very little outgoings group damage, I won’t have to do much of any healing.
Exactly, it’s an arms-race and Domino-effect. Class bloat impacts everything else, and everything else gets tuned in a way to need more class bloat to deal with it
Ok but that’s what we have now. It’s just more lenient to allow more players to complete the content. You make healing more gcd intensive in an optimal situation you just make bad healers, of which there are thousands, quit by pricing them out of the content.
This was expected. And so boring and toothless. Also shows you are not at home with the full extent of my views.
Or you just make more abilities like living flame that are multi-functional, so healers don’t mind dpsing as much
See these are the types of discussions people are not ready to have. I guess most are purely arguing from their emotions and want to hold on to what they have got. Because it gets emotional very fast, as it did with your comment.
Also another proof of how m+ informs, more than anything, the game AND class design. Everything suffers (or thrives, depending on your stance I guess) because of it.