I fully agree there. And I mean, you’re right no doubt that gear has been a major incentive over the years. The difficulty with that is that I’d say it’s normal behaviour, people want to experience growth, progression over time. It’s part of the whole fantasy.
I do think M+ has the capacity to be enjoyable for a larger group of people than it is right now. I don’t think Delves are the solution for this, those seem made for players who (strongly) dislike M+ and/or prefer solo play. Blizzard may still tweak them of course to bring them closer in line with a dungeon run in a group, but I think that’d be a mistake when you consider the players who enjoy Delves for what they are, and not just for gear.
I personally think M+ as it it would not work without a timer.
The experience in Timewalking and HC shows us that many (most) players will still want to speed run even without a timer, and that there will be tension between folks who want fast and those who do not.
That said - there has also been talk about a M+ solo queue and I’ve often thought that would probably not be great with the current M+ format - and that a dungeon solo queue would need some other system.
Perhaps a Mythic + Solo queue could work with a death counter instead of a timer - where competing with multiple lives left (say 3 out of 5) could be the criteria for graduating to the next tier up?
Feels like trying to fix something broken by braking it even further, not sure how the decision was made to move forward in season 1 for TWW mess, but feels like some big boss said what if we did this and everyone went what a great idea boss. There was no need to combine both affixes in the same week, there is no need for time reduction on death as dying is already penalty enough. besides this does not work as some dungeons have spawn on boss killed and other spawn at start while some have more forgiving timer than others. There needs to be consistancy to make things work and not feel frustation before even starting, were people will start looking to do only a certain dungeon as it is the easiest one. The compressed M+ levels are not working roll back the old model, to many players feel bad as in the old model they could do +9 or +10 but would have never stepped into a +15 these people feel like they are doing worse as they are failing and getting blamed on +6 and onward. Before completing a Key with +1-+3 meant actually 1-3 levels increase, under the compressed system timing a key +1-+3 is effectively +2-+6 levels difficulty increase. Taking the grind for valor stones and crests in account people are dropping of it’s painfull and not alt friendly, result the game has the least willing tanks and healers compared to any expansion in played previously. Mythic Vault loot is now dropping from +10 (+20 older system) no sure why this had to be increased. In Mythic + content every player counts for 20% were as in Mythic raid every player counts for 5% it should not be less rewarding for more resposibility.
I could go on and on but please for the love of God when someone has a bright idea in the future maybe look at the pro’s and con’s before implementing rather than refusing to say we made a mistake.
I’ll take the death counter any day over the timer. If people want to do dumb things, like wait for cd’s between pulls, then that is on them.
I would rather play the game again, than this go go esport thing it has turned into.
If people want to go fast, they can still do that.
the game will never be the slow experience you want, people even rush classic content. If there was no timer, people will charge through. Look at HC dungeons as an example.
You would have to join a team or guild who take it slow
I watch many of top m+ players and i can say u have no idea what u talking about. This is not some sort of billionaire world where they are billionaire and we are working class and those rich people try to convince us how life is easy, u just buy things if u need them or u pay bills and thats it where is a problem. They are simply the best cuz the get there step by step not because they dont know how game works they know how game works than anybody else thats why they are the best is it really that hard to understand?? And what is exactly “pugging aka the majority experience” cuz i play most of the time pugs and i start from +1 to +11 and i stop there cuz i dont see a reason but if i want a challenge i go and try another +11 but i have 638 ilvl playing solo and i did 4/8 mythic with pugs so where is the problem ??? I know where is the problem but when i say it people gets mad cuz they cant admit it themselves cuz evey other excuse is better even the stupidest one than the truth sorry but oh my lord
I only play with guildies, so that world be fine.
At least with the timer gone, people can choose to go fast or slow as they prefer.
As it is now, your only option is to go fast.
Plenty of completionist keys where people take a chill approach and just run the key at their own pace without worrying about the timer.
Just find 4 like-minded people and you can sit in Siege for 3 hours if you(and the 4 other people) want to.
I disagree. High octane game mode dosent mean it needs to be an e-sports.
There are plenty of games with at timer that are not e-sports to prove my point. And there are other games that are e-sports that dont have a timer. Like SC for example (the 1st e-sport).
But SC is a good example of limiting players to the benefit of gameplay. Bases need to have finite resources because you want to incentivize players to leave their base and do stuff. Otherwise everyone plays terran, fills everything with tanks and turrents and waits.
And that is gameplay. Applicable to all levels of players. And the fact that they turned that game into an e-sport and you got koreans doing micromanagement of 50 individual marines dosent prove that certain mechanics are to the benefit of regular players as well.
Same with M+. You want to incentivize players to do stuff instead of sitting there waiting. Hence, the timer.
Part of blizzard’s deal was to funnel party damage to the tank. Which would be fair.
But that is not the case. Party damage is as high, or higher as it was in DF. And on top of that we have to baby-sit a tank.
That was not the deal.
As long as the healer has top of the line reflexes to deal with that damage. Which is unfair thing to ask… the rest of the party can have X skill but you need a competent healer with more skill than required to deal with all that…
OR… you have perfect coordination of kicks and stuns. Which implies that DDs have more skill than required while the healer simply AFKs the whole dungeon (which is what would happen in lower keys).
Ideally you want the whole party to have ~ similar skill to pull off mechanics. Right now you have to choose between a competent healer or competent DDs. No in-between.
Maybe I’m spoilt as we usually have a designated tank player (using different classes), but so far my experience till 12 (untimed) and 11 (timed) is not at all like this. Quite some tank-specs can manage themselves fine most of the time and barely need heals (only for tank-busters really). If there’s no party-damage, there’s often little to heal or pay attention to…
Right now at the end of the season with most of us sitting with 636 gear its easy to say that. Because you (and the tank) are over-geared for the content you are doing.
A couple of months ago that was not the case. And you could feel it. A lot.
