Azshara’s primary parts of Zin-Azshari were blue roof-topped buildings. Given that Azshara was Queen, and considering her dress was white/pale and blue - I’m quite good with the ancient Highborne’s blue/pale colour scheme. Gives us a clear indication on where the High Elves got their ideas from.
If you ask me, blue was the big colour whilst purple was the secondary colour.
I think quite the opposite. while you do see the blue in Darnassus, if you look at the ceilings of the Gazeebo, there is a white and blue theme in the Temple of Elune - you also see this in Suramar on the west side of the city where the colour is silver and blue - but all of this is also amidst purple - there is purple everywhere in both Darnassus and Suramar. Besides blue leads to purple on the spectrum so that’s not surprising at all. the blue sky and night sky turn into midnight blue matching one of the hair colours too on the night elves.
Blue is also the colour of the alliance -which is why it dominates human and high elf’s primary distinction from blood elves who adopt red incidentally the horde colour scheme.
But night elf is purplse primariy, arcahaeoogy shows an insight into the highborne and the night elf obsession with purple. Their skin tones are variations of purple going from almost grey to almost moon white skin. Whiles they never gave us Azshara’s particular skin tone as an option for night elves, you do see the bluer skin on the nightborne skin tones… and I would imagine if highborne ever got its own allied race or at the very least a customization for the night elf mage class - you would have that skin tone their. Look at your own characters skin tone, it’s a whitish blue.
Not saying you are wrong exactly just pointing out the purple strength while acknowledging the blue is there.
I did highborne arcahaeology quite thoroughly in Legion. And enjoyed reading the descriptions on the items found in Azsuna and Suramar, as well as the analysis.
It is so odd to me the mindset i sometimes see in people unable to reconcile the night elves various aspects. The highborne is where the night elves connect to the high elves - but for some to think they have nothing to do with the night elves - is absurd, as if to say they aren’te ven night elves. The nightborne are a variation of the night elves following a very specific city community of them. You don’t get more night elven than the nightborne. Like all the night elven motifs, cultural portrayals, crescent moon symbols, magic and star focus wasn’t a hint - let alone the nightsabers and skin colour. Just becaus they look a little different and show a part of the night elves these goons haven’t seen before but despite pointing out that blizzard has already revealed much about this side of them such a thing shouldn’t be in doubt - convinced me thoroughly, that sub-races would feel unique enough to feel like separate races to many just through a redress and were a good and profitable decision to make.
THe elf race is quite extensive and is clearly split into two halves. Night elf and Thalassian elf.
on the Night you have: Kaldorei, Illidari, Cenarion, Nightborne with Naga and Satyr the twisted corrupted abomination versions
on the Thalassian elf you have: High/Blood elf, Void elf, Darkfallen/San’lyan elf, Fel elf (incl illidari blood elves)
The two aren’t unrelated, to an extent they are all variation of night elf. Just one half is completely nightbased and tied to the specific Kaldorei lore and story, the other day based and tied specifically to Quel’thalas and the HIgh elf story.
One thing of note. We say night elf when referring to the race, and The Night Elves when referring to the faction in the early days - that distinction was already necessary though it was quite interchangeable.
We can no longer do that without confusion, especially with more groups and factions of night elves that have been revealed since WC3, including the sub-races in legion (undead, ghost, nightborne, demon night elf).
however I do acknowledge that most people when they say night elves, mean The Night Elves faction not the race, as i keep pointing out highborne, illidari, Moonguard, undead ravencrests and nightborne are also night elves, but not The Night Elves as we referred to the faction in WC3. This is definitely changed.
We refer to the faction now as either the Alliance Night Elves or the Darnassians, their era is neither Long Vigil or Pre-sundering, but for now simply Post-vigil also the name of their culture because they are collection of night elven factions from the long vigil era (cenarian druids), the pre-sundering era (highborne), the fel demon hunter culture (the illidari) - in addition to some of these being their own faction… some Illidari work with the night elves, but the Illidari are also their own faction. Illidari is the name of a race of night elves only, but is also the name of the faction. illidari demons are not a race, the race of the Illidari demon would be its actual race. That extends to all but the night elf. The race of the blood elf Illidari is the Fel elf. Only the night elf illidari is both a faction name and a sub-race name.
The Highborne is also confusing. While principally night elven of which only the Shen’dralar and Darnassian highborne are technically, Highborne exist within the Nightborne too, never dropping the distinction seeing the evolution to nightborne (now given race status and so you see both Nightborne and nightborne used) is still night elven despite its clear distinction so obvoiusly you can have highborne amongst them even if the honourific or position of the caste may no longer be upheld (which at first i thought it was not , but now believe it certainly is, which can be true if all nightborne are highborne (and easily makes sense) but also if not all are Highborne.) And also applies to high elves who while Highborne descendants, will always be counted in any summary or treatise on the Highborne caste. Highborne is the name of the night elf caste and all Highborne technically are night elf. High elf is the race of highborne. Naga while a new race also sport the highborne amongst them. Note while using the term highborne you recast the elven discussion from a night elf perspective. Highborne is relevant to the night elf - so mentioning it in reference to high elf, naga or satyr is always in reference to the NIght elf connection. When speaking of these races in any other context, highborne is never used.
This is why the term highborne (small h) is NEVER used, always Highborne (as a name of caste or group and not a race) , it is the same reason you see kaldorei and night elf used, in addition to Kaldorei and Night Elf - and there are times when there is a difference. Shal’dorei, Sin’dorei and Quel’dorei are never used with small letters nor without the ’ mark when in reference to the original elven (or night elven base), because these are all extensions of Elves, not original races. The original race is kaldorei - and it is the only one like that, hence why Quel’dorei is never queldorei, Shal’dorei is never shaldorei, Sin’dorei is never sindorei. And although dorei doesn’t directly translate to elf, you can say in a sense this is what it means.
Sounds confusing? Yes, and its perfect… if you have ever studied anthropology - and tried to track down ethnic groups and their off -shoot connectionis, you will find something every similar and complicated further by the references to them in different languages, not to mention even in their own language they might have several names, sometiems for exactly the same thing, other times for a variation or group which might be a separate group or a pratifally integrated group. It all varies.
But neither of them were Zin-Azshari.
Blue is a good colour to use for the former Capital of the Elves because it would naturally stand out from places like Eldre’Thalas, Suramar and Shandaral.
The city was the beacon for arcane magical research and Highborne lives and considering the future King of Quel’Thalas was also in line for the Kaldorei throne…I don’t believe that the Highborne, specifically those from Zin-Azshari, and those Elves who established Quel’Thalas, were exactly all that different in their styles of kingdom.
And it’s also the colour of Zin-Azshari and many other things, like the ocean, like Azshara’s old skin tone.
Well you see, before and during Legion, I’d have thought that purple was the primary colour for the Highborne and all Highborne lavished in purple, but the Azshara Warbringer makes it not the case.
Rich sky blues and pale stone works, the latter part, similar to that of the Quel’Thalas society but I don’t think you see the uniquness of this.
Azshara’s City was it’s colour for a reason and I like it. It’s separate. It’s distinct. It makes us look at Zin-Azshari, know it’s time period and say “Yes, that would stand out from the other cities.”
Then it’s absurd to say Elves are not trolls. The Elves are a variation of trolls, following a very specific tribe of them. They have the same build and really close Skincolour.
They even revere the same things (wild Gods are just Loa of the Region where dark trolls settled, Elune has a Troll following as well).
So Elves are trolls. I want Suramar architecture in Zandalar. NOW!
I want to see a Starstride vs Kalibas argument, it would be a clash of the ages!
That would be an argument between himself and himself - they are two of the same…
Oh are they? I thought I saw them quoting each other in a different thread.
He’s quoting himself.
Let that sink in for a moment ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
Actaully Nar’thalas was the beacon of arcane magical research, Eldre’thalas was why the QUeen’s best and brightest projects were carried out.
Also remember the early Zin’Azshari palace in End times insteance is balck and gold (but then i think all of that artwork was placeholder).
Nor do I. Thinkgs changed though, you would have seen motiffs and symbology carried forward. I mean they changed alot intentionally from their night elf origin, some was just growth and circumstance instigated change.
But they wanted to be different from the kaldorei - both long vigil and pre-sundering. While that is true, we mustn’t forget that that doesn’t stop them being elves, tehy don’t change from being elves, they just change to a very distinct type of elf. Afterall Darth’rema’rs objective was to build a n elven kindgom that superceded anything of the past where ALL magic (arcane, nature, divine etc) could be practiced freely and responsibly/
I wonder who is closer in line to the Elven throne, Farondis, Darth’remar, Totheldrin or Ravencrest.
True, I wonder if that has anythign to do with them making her naga - but it is a bluish purple - it’s not a blue blue like the draenei…
I think we sometimes forget to factor in the real scale of the narrative describes. I try, but i must admit i often fall short to the temptation to simplify, especially after having spent so long on the game.
I’ve tried not to make the error, but notice people have. The narrative and stated is the primary source for most of warcraft and should be the basis of all our arguemnets. The game visuals and quest lines don’t encompass everything or even close. They only show moments in time, certain sections the current story wants to highlight.
This is why I balk at people who love to pidgeon Darnassian night elves and the entire night elf race into forest elves. i know they are basing that based on the art assets they’ve seen repeatedly on their quest adventure they repeat (especially every time they level a night elf toon), the reptition sometimes creates an impression that this is everything - but the lore comes first, and tells you far more than the art in game immediately shows.
Therefore we must try to take the things the lore says exactly as they say it, and the words they describe. We can use the game asset as tool or means to interprete or give some rough idea of what the lore is saying but of paramount is what it tells us.
so if it says the night elf was a world wide civilziation. we can’t think everythingn loks the same, or stayed the same from being built to the sundering. We must imagine they would have had enough variation, but as well the love for silver (light of the stars of the moon) and purple, the colour of the night elves and the Well of Eternity) dominated.
But there would be exceptions , differences, certain things also nice… it’s an entire world - an ENTIRE world, in a united civilization.
I’m the same poster, but it is a family that plays wow here, a few of us are into night elves. here.
I have quoted myself before though, often it is to emphasise a point or repeat myself. Done it a lot more on the same character though. No I’m not crazy, i just got tired of repeating myself a few times and decided to remind a stubborn poster I had already said the information previously.
However sometimes it isn’t me, one computer at the home, and i’m not the only fan. but i’m the only one who has access to account details etc.
Zin-Azshari was the capital. It was the place where Highborne from far and wide lived and was the center of their magical civilisation. Nar’thalas was just another school, like the Mennar Academy.
Nope. He was a governor.
Again. A governor of state.
Tortheldrin and Farondis, like Elisande, Aszune, Lestheria and Toreth were governors of state. They were like British City Councils, whereby each big city of importance to the Queen, was given a ruling governor/mayor of sorts.
He had a fortress and lead the Moon Guard. As far as we know, he was not in line for the throne.
Only those of Highborne blood were given that title and Ravencrest was not Highborne.
He was 12th or 20th in line.
This wasn’t Dath’Remar’s doing at this point. This was Queen Azshara.
Sunstrider was a Highborne noble who was in line for the throne, who, after the exile, wanted to create another elven paradise that was built on the backbone of the Kaldorei Empire. He succeeded and through Azshara’s Warbringer, we can see exactly where he and his Highborne got their ideas from when they created Silvermoon.
It is entirely possible that Zin-Azshari darkened in colour at night, but it would have only have gone a darker blue.
No longer canon. It was indeed a placeholder.
Azshara’s Warbringer triumphs over anything we’ve seen in game for it.
It’s funny, but artwork in game is the only thing I gladly and welcome no longer being canon or being placeholder or refined till an appropriate one that matches the scape and scope of the narrative is finally presented.
This is why lore and narrative trumps in game visuals as the most canon of the lore. Gameplay of the classes is the least canon as gameplay is just the interactive mechanism to play in the video game world unless people think pressing the 2 keybind is how you earnestly cast a frostbolt or do a blade dance.
Or maybe people believe you can run non stop from one corner of the world to the other in a matter of hours - or that the villages and towns you see in game are the only ones around . They aren’t, unless the lore specifically states they are.
If the game shows a town, it is there in the lore, but it doesn’t mean there aren’t others not shown.
The game doesn’t show everything, nor tell everything… this is why I keep trying to point people to what the lore says as the foundation on what you should believe on any race or group. And the lore is shown in cinematic, audio books and novels as well as statements and can convey a ton of information the game doesn’t have nor provides.
To get a truer picture and a more accurate perspective you need ALL of it. Especially with night elves.
This is correct except for the backbone bit, he wanted nothing to do with what the kaldorei empire became, nor the stubborn cowardice of what the long vigil elves were interpreted to be.
He was accused of wanting the arcane back because he was addicted and doomed to follow in the footsteps of the lavish arrogant and reckless lifestyle of his caste in the Palace his group of highborne were from. He did not want that either…,the high elves wanted arcane magic without the demons and believed achieving free and full use was possible without detection as well as wielding the arcane responsibly…
They wanted a superior elven kingdom that would surpass the hubris of the former as well as the unnecessary caution of the current state of the elves (I.e. the long vigil - 3k years of nature and grief was enough and he believed the elves should move forward and do better than their predecessors - Malfurion did not share his belief, not while the Legion threat remained and accused his dogged persistence on the matter as reckless folly in light of the threat out there I’d arcane magic was to be wielded or learnt by others and the same error of the elves repeated. To pursue this course of action must be lingering addiction throes somehow notmgotten over in some of the highborne.
So he wanted something new, but much better, much fairer. Notice how high elf society while feudal seems far more equal than that of the rigid but also decadent lavish kaldorei society described in WotA trilogy and shown in Suramar. Where some elves have completely lost it like Azshara did, while others retain the nobility exemplified and notorious of the race, seen in their triumph over the 1st invasion and in individuals like Prince Farondis, Malfurion Stormrage, Tyrande Whisperwind, Kur’talos Ravencrest - and it is this night elven true nobility Thalyssra draws on and Ly’leth Lunastre pleads with the Class Order Leader to help remind her kin off - she speaks back to the days long before they became nightborne (they had done nothing noble in the few thousand years transitioned to nightborne), it’s of the time before when they led the fight against the Legion as night elves, and when they forged a kingdom of nobility, wisdom and uprightness. Before she got twisted enough to want the legion, remember Azshara and the night elves were i credible and of truly incredible character, the sort of nobility and care for life that drew Cenarius to them. It is the same nobility that caused them to rise up against a Queen that had done so much for them and had been a paragon of nobility when it was clear she had lost the plot.
Once again this text wall is far too huge for me too read, because I fell asleep after the first block. Mate, shorten your texts and sentences please.
That’s a slap in the face, a discussion forum lives from something like that, so answer to it 
Yes he was a ruler - Governor may apply, but he is called Prince - not Magistrix or Garnd Magistrix - I assume means he is in succession or in line to the throne or a direct relative of the Queen - this is usually what Prince means unless the lore specifically states otherwise.
And remember it will have to say he was just a governor, not a royal - because you can be both royalty and in line to the throne and Governor too.
Please, this is news to me. While it is clear Totheldrin and farondis were leaders of state, I have seen no indication that Prince means something other than royalty. If you’re saying this is not the case, please provide a source for this as I have never seen it.
i have assumed that Totheldrin and Farondis are royals and relatives of the Queen, hence the title/honourific Prince.
Kur’talos Ravencrest was mentioned if I recall correctly in WotA Trilogy as being a direct relative of the Queen. So he was more than that.
Not really, It can mean that he’s a male member of the current or former royal family, but there are countries where it’s just a title of nobility between duke and king or even just a noble title. Since there are many princes with different family names i think the second thing applies.
ps. With your last sentence you again make an assumption and say it’s true unless the lore states otherwise. You should say “i assume” but not this is what it means unless the lore states otherwise.
Not an unfair criticism in other situations. But in this case if someone is called a Prince I don’t think it is unreasonable to assume he is a Prince unless it is stated that prince means something else.
So Prince Kael’thas highborne descendant isn’t? What else would Prince mean or should we assume it to mean
I just wrote that “Prince” doesn’t automatically mean “descendant of a king/queen” it in itself (without more context) it can be just a noble title.
The definition in the Oxford dictionary sais:
1 The son of a monarch.
1. 1.1 A close male relative of a monarch, especially a grandson.
2. 1.2 A male monarch of a small state, actually, nominally, or originally subject to a king or emperor.
3. 1.3 (in France, Germany, and other European countries) a nobleman, usually ranking next below a duke.
4. 1.4 prince of/among A man or thing regarded as pre-eminent in a particular sphere or group.
All of these are possible meanings of prince, and since there are many princes, at least one of them has a distinct family name, and all of them rule a distinct part of the empire we can assume that it is more the Noble title close to duke and less the My daddy was a king prince.
I think IF they were close relatives to Azshara we would have heared of it while talking with them.
Even when talking to eachother Farondis calls Azshara by her title (wich he wouldn’t do at this point if she was his cousin, because it gives her power in the situation)
And I acknowledged what you wrote. But blizzard aren’t in the habit of using words to mean different things without actually presenting them as different.
I don’ think it is wrong nor unwise
only 2 as far as I recall. Totheldrin and Farondis. We don’t even know Azshara’s family name. Do you realise how little info is on her.
It is possible, what does Queen even mean? Most princes don’t even rule areas, so if that definition is what they are using, then it is even more remarkable on the Princes, cos they woudl be very close to the throne.
However it is unlikely that it is just a governor. The system so far seems to be like a monarchy from the info we have. Since we know there are people in line of succession. This implies a lot.
Would we? When the name Prince implies it. Do we know of Azshara’s parents? WAs she elected Queen or inherited it? IS it a feudal system? None of these deatails are stated outright.
There is so much about all the characters and peoples of wow we actually don’t know and detail isn’t given. Till Legion we didn’t even know if Tyrande had a sister, and lets not forget she is outright stated as a Night Elf Princess. Even though she has never claimed or used the honorific, casuing people to doubt whether the original canon is still in place. Which is pointless really… it doesn’t matter if she was a princess or not, when you enter the Order of Elune, you leave all such things behind, all former attachments. you are dedicated to the goddess - this is told to us in WotA trilogy. Tyrande could have been royalty, it wouldn’t matter.
This is why I tend to take what they say at FACE value unless they indicate otherwise, and trust me Aethil every content I experience, piece of lore I read, my mind is geared to night elves, hungry for ever scrap of info. I don’t miss night elf info, they are not an additional concern or an additional fancy to me. They are the main attraction.
I play this game and read the quests primarily to find more lore about them. And most of my wow lore thinking is entirely based on them. Why do you think i can post so much on them over the last 12 years??
Night elfs are pretty much imperial, or was that, meening anyone powerfull enough could become the leader, Azhara was due to her power and beaty, also due to her succes in war and gaining new land, Tyrande changed it quite a bit, where the night elfs became more of fundamentalists instead, and more following Elune, way less imperialsitic, but still keeping their arrogance against other races they considered lesser.