Relevant to this discussion. As opposed as to the great number of people that never cared. I personally always saw Helves as I saw Ogres, Forest Trolls, Broken Dreanei, Wildhammers and co. They are a part of the faction in lore, so they should be playable by the faction in the game, and should have a higher priority than introducing new races into the faction.
You call it a compromise, I call it a clear win for the High Elf demand, with some plausible deniability for Blizzard. The anti-Helf-advocates certainly weren’t happy with this supposed “compromise”, while most of the pro-Helf people were.
Well, if you keep provocing them like you did in this thread, you will get a reply. You can’t complain about it still being a topic, when you are actively helping to keep it one. I certainly can’t remember any threads from a dissatisfied pro-Helf side in this eu story forum since the Velves got their skin options. And I really don’t care, if you saw some people in the us forums, or mmo-champion or so make that point, you are the one carrying it here, and making it an issue.
Also… we are on the story forums, and your main argument is that both sides shouldn’t have the same race. Well… that’s not a story argument at all. Expect it not to be taken seriously. I certainly don’t.
Not the story forums, no. And that’s what I specified. That’s where you are carrying this stuff.
That’s not how it works. If you admit it to yourself or not, this is usually about having the last word, I think. It certainly is for me, I always feel annoyed leaving the discussion when something I disagree with is still on the table, and I expect it is the same with most people who argue on the internet. The mature thing is not to be polite about it, but to walk away. I usually don’t much care about being mature on the forums of a game, but I do think it is important to be honest with oneself on such things.
And for you specifically… you should really examine if you are relying out of politeness, if you use the post to claim that I am being unreasonable. Not a polite thing to do.
Certainly not. If you’re embarassed about the discussion, don’t have it next time.
The worst thing is absolutely the attempt to reconcile the Legion with time travelling and alternate dimensions in WoD. There is only one Legion as the Nether exists outside space and time, because making infinite Legions in infinite timelines breaks the setting but so does having one Legion merrily dimension hopping on the regular to conquer alternate worlds for resources and recruits and how have they never conquered an alternate Azeroth and concluded their Burning Crusade in total victory over the multiverse already?
Apparently every Azeroth is strong enough to withstand the Legion.
Apparently in every dimension the orcs broke free of Legion control?
In every dimension, even without the Horde invading, the Alliance nations were strong enough to withstand any Legion attack.
Also, how come there’s no demonic Velen as a Legion leader? Also, anoying Retcon. Every person that dies becomes a part of a collection of alternate-selves that form one soul in the afterlife.
But how does that work for for example Durotan? What if he merges with AU-souls/selves that never met Draka? Or hated her?
With infinite afterlives tailored to fit certain people perfectly, the bajillion other you’s souls go to places you’ll never see!
Wait… what if there are 44,759 iterations (at least) of your soul perfect for Maldraxxus? You all fight to the last?
And now all the copies are bundled in the Maw as a package deal. All souls from all realities, bloating the jailor’s realm and power while no more than a trickle reaches the besieged other realms. WHY HAVEN’T WE LOST YET?!
We have to remember that thеre were two retcons. First, in Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2, humans were good, the orcs were bad. Then around Warcraft III time the lore was retconned - orcs suddenly became good and deceived by demons, liberated by Thrall. And they gave us some bad humans which you’ve seen as self-serving, xenophobic and maniacal - Garithos, Aedelas Blackmoore, Arthas.
But when WoW was released, the story changed again. We had Thrall and Jaina as the most active leaders. They strived for peace - and people were annoyed. They were sick of Thrall and Jaina’s friendship. Blizzard decided to put an end.
I think you have to remember that both Horde and Alliance players were unhappy. After Blizzard abandoned Thrall and Jaina’s peacemongering and gave us Garrosh, suddenly in Cata we had orcs burning Alliance cities. You had two options:
You either play the villain (the Horde)
Or you play the victim (the Alliance)
And this was a position many players were unhappy with. When I play a computer game, I don’t want to be a villain or a victim - I want to be a hero! People didn’t feel like heroes in Cata-MOP era. In Cata, they had to stick around Thrall (which was already unlikeable for quite a long time). In MOP Horde players had to stick around Vol’Jin (which had its cool moments), but the Alliance had to stick around Varian. Varian back then was quite unlikeable - he was nothing like the old characters of Uther and Turalyon. He was maddened, with split personality, trying to reconcile his human with wolf nature. And people just didn’t like it.
Oh, by the way - people never saw the Horde paying the price. When did it happen? The Alliance just helped the Horde retake back Orgrimmar in the end of MOP and then left back without winning anything.
This is actually a story Blizzard set from the beginning of Warcraft III. It was not a retcon - it was always implied that the Horde is peaceful only because Thrall leads it, and he has been raised by humans. A Horde that’s not led by Thrall always ends in failure. Blizzard had the chance to change it - by offering us Vol’jin as a sane and peaceful leader. And that opportunity was ultimately wasted as WOD was abandoned due to flawed corporate politics at the time (1 expansion per year). WOD suffered from lack of content and in the end Blizzard scrapped it without developing Vol’jin’s story. Then the Vol’jin story served as setting the ground for Sylvanas being warchief.
I think people just stopped caring about the lore at all. I still care sometimes, but I find most of the time sticking to Classic timeline when the story still mattered.
May be because of the BfA sequels, but as of now, the only retcon that seems jarring to me, is the one we had in order to push Sylvanas through all those hoops in order to have the latest copycat of the Faction war villain.
Perhaps not entirely a retcon depending on perspective, but my biggest beef is how Blizzard mindlessly tries to one-up themselves by going ‘but wait… THE REAL BAD GUYS WERE XX all along’!
WoW started as an already high magical setting with the Legion as the epic bad guys.
Now, we are fighting beings core to existence itself in a battle to save not just the afterlife; but the MULTIVERSE, where super-mega-grimdank-eternal-torture fates are the alternatives to success.
I know that high stakes can be fun and all when done tastefully, but I feel like at one point; we went too far, and I just have no way to connect with the current Warcraft story anymore.
Logical path - Hyjal. But logic is not something commonly found in WoW story up to date.
Which of them? Alleria is in the Alliance, Vereesa is not, because high elves are not allowed to be a part of the alliance, but practically speaking she is heaving leaning to that side.
To get rid of the “blue warchief” category aka “high king” which has it’s role regularly trying to bloat beyond a military but not political leader it should’ve been. And move aside Anduin as the story leans toward “Anduin and friends”, instead of exploring different races / views / sides of the alliance.
“Curiosity killed a cat” kind of narrative could be interesting. Will it? I don’t know. I just embrace the meme and hope to see it going “all in”. Undead, maybe of different kinds, blood trolls, Azshara, scarlets, maybe even we can find a corner for some Twilight Hammer members or / and botani! Since Turalyon is one of leadeing figures in the Army of the Light currently, we could have a dreadlord as a political advisor too!
He’s already working on saving Sylvanas. I wonder how well will it go
/cast
Still a better story than he was IMO. But different people have different opinions.
They made Alliance into retards absorbent, so personally, im happy with that. Let all those who think that Horde is evil, gtfo to alliance to play generic good with no story/adversity/conflict/inner struggle/satisfying quests/good characters. Alliance is Just easily digestable, perfectly acceptable trash for 13 years old kids, who wants to mercilessly murder someone, while having total moral high ground (killing is bad! but green men bad, killing him is good!!!) for doing so. And as such, anyone who actually believe that alliance has moral high ground in ANY of last 3-4 xpac, should just re-roll alliance and stop crying on forums.
Most annoying retcon is definitely the retcons around shadow magic.
Originally, it was a form of magic related to the dead & darkness. A generic “evil magic” in WoW used by a variety of characters: troll shadow hunters, draenei auchenai, forsaken warlocks, human cultists, dark iron conjurers, scarlet raven priests, etc.
Then, the cosmic update came. Cosmic update separated “death” as a power and cosmic force from shadow, and made shadow equivalent with void, the old-god tentacle power.
Blizzard retconned most shadow magic to be void-based, and some to be death-based. However, they explicitly failed to retcon a few “classes” that hang in the air. Auchenai, for example, are death priests, bind the souls of the dead, corrupt auchenai raise the dead - but their powers are inherently void-based as they care for the remains of a void naaru (and are influenced by it). Warlock use of shadows is never explained, how it related to soulgems & stones which seems to be a remnant of the shadow=death old lore. Shadow Hunters also seem to be bound to death loa nowadays and derive their powers from there, so they went death instead of shadow?
Scarlet Raven priests are just … nope. No explanation. They exist, bye.
