Sylvanas is Villain Sue, as there are various version of Mary Sue. More definitions at TV tropes.
Mary Sue is hardly limited to always being a goody two-shoes. This brand of Mary Sue decided to take the dark and evil path, kicking a few dogs and probably cackling about it in the process. Whether it be stealing the Cosmic Keystones out of the grasp of the heroes, effortlessly bringing about the ironic utopia of the other villain, or just generally acting like a cad, they absolutely love to be evil.
This character generally shows up as an authorâs wish fulfillment to be evil . Alternatively, in fanfiction, it might show up because the author favors the villain and wants a vicarious relationship with them. It might be a consequence of Evil Is Cool taken to the logical extreme. Or, perhaps, the author just has a distaste for some (or all) of the protagonists and created the character to facilitate a Hate Fic, Fix Fic , or Revenge Fic. Either way, the same author favoritism and plot bias are now working for the forces of evil. It may also come about as an attempt to create a Magnificent Bastardor similar style of villain, only to go too far and become one of these.
Although I agree her character got trashed, especialy in BFA.
Iâm sure you think Dragon Ball Z characters like Tyrande( âshe should be able to oneshoot Nathanos and crush a gorrilion Forsaken in one Moonfire!â) Whisperwind and Malfurion(â The worlds most powerfull druid, master of elements and melee masterâ) Stormrage are examples of multi layered and complex characters nowâŚ?
Okay, I emphasizeâŚhey, I could say write the same about the Horde as a factionâŚ
To be villain batted so certain characters look good/ beter.
I mean take the âTerror of Darkshoreâ cinematicâŚthe Hordes races stripped of everything that characterises them as the races they were to make them look like a bunch of teenage goons in a cheesy horror movie to make thoseâŚâplot de-â I mean the Night ElvesâŚlook all mystical and powerfull, oh with âNight Elvesâ I ofcourse ment Malfurion Stormrage and Tyrande WhisperwindâŚthe Night Elves were there somewhere, in their shadow.
I donât think that Sylvanas fits in that category either.
As the definition goes, the author isnât aiming at having people relish in her âevilnessâ just for the sake of being evil.
With Sylvanas acts, they often rationalise ways in which said evil acts answer to some ulterior necessity. Which, arguably, aim at making them seem marginally less so.
Her infamous â4D Chessâ thing, goes against the very premise of a Villain Sue whose only purpose in a story is to be evil for the sake of it.
As of now, Sylvanas is more of a Villain Protagonist (to follow on your Tv Tropes web).
Yeah first time sinceâŚwhen? remind me please. Such moments are like bone which usualy thrown at nelf fans, while horde has 3 cgi cinematics.I know that originaly warcraft is orcs vs humans but it is getting rather old.
I wasnât talking about cinematics on their own. I was talking about the contents.
And that was what I was saying, a bone for the Night Elf players over the back of Hordes races making them look like a bunch of goons to make your side look beter.
Or rather, to make Tyrande and Malfurion look beter.
âŚbut they do. People idolize the most flat and boring characters all the time, if they just represent the style they like best. If âpopularâ isnât synonymous with âwell writtenâ for you, this really shouldnât be an argument.
And with Afrasiabi own words as he was writing her since the beginning apparently. You will argue with Alex now? I dislike the guy myself but he is in charge and he is behind narration.
Not at all. If anything it perfectly fits the description - if EVERYTHING had to be bent so her plan works then she is flawless Villain Sue example. Apparently even when she is loosing she is winning actually.
She is farting out new abilities out of nowhere and apparently she has some undead army atm.
This expansion was pretty much Mary Sue vs Villain Sue.
Now I am not defending Blizzardâs bad writing or justifying what they did with the story, but I get the feeling like they want to move on with the characters and develop/add new ones. Considering the fact that these characters are about what ⌠20+ years old? Maybe they want a âfreshâ generation.
Now I have no statistics about this just a feeling but I would say the majority of players prefers old/original characters, to having created new ones. Or better said, making new characters that are not meant to add, but instead replace the original cast. And that might be something Blizzard either hasnât realised, or are just ignoring and pushing for a new gen of âleadersâ.
With the intended end of the conflict, they need to replace the leaders that were actualy part, or the cause of said conflicts. Getting rid of the past, opening a new future and such.
Still hate it but it might be what they are going for
From a Good War.
_ Would Saurfang ever understand that? He had glimpsed the same abyss she had. His son, Dranosh, had been a bedrock of honor, but that hadnât mattered a whit when death had come for him. Saurfang had watched as his son danced on the Lich Kingâs puppet strings. That day had wounded Saurfangâs soul.
Even he believed he had been broken.
Sylvanas had privately suspected he would never return to war. But he had. The wound had not healed; he had simply learned to live with it. Now he seemed to imagine that honor would sustain him to the end of his days.
Honor was all Saurfang had left. Honor and the Horde. She did not know what he would do if either were taken from him.
He would become my enemy, a terrible one.
Fortunately for him, honor and restraint were exactly what she needed now. Perhaps he would find a glorious death on the battlefield before he ever had to face a choice that would destroy him.
Or maybe the old orc will surprise me , she thought. Maybe he will face the world as it is and chooseto fight onward at my side. If he doesnât, well . . ._
There is faint and really terrible hint at the end sheâs planing something broader.
granted who knows if they even switched the plot from this novella to the Game itself x.D
True. But neither are used for the sake of being evil, as both fall under some twisted reasoning beyond the characteristics of the act itself.
It sounds as nitpicking, but she would qualify as a âVillain Sueâ, as the definition of it goes in said web, if those acts were created solely because the character wants to be evil.
As soon as writers give them some significance or reason beyond it (be that a militar necessity to fight void or an ongoing Death conflict behind the screen), the character ceases to be evil for the sake of it, and goes from a Villain Sue to a Villain Protagonist.
One that has reasons beyond being evil because he feels like it.
No. What Iâm saying is that there are certain grades regarding how writers portray villains.
To go for a more understandable comparison by using the archetypal DND diagram, a villain Sue apparently goes down a more traditional Chaotic Evil route, whereas a Villain Protagonist seems to align more with the Lawful Evil one.
And I do think Sylvanas in BfA goes more for the latter.
Has anything been bent for her character tho? It doesnât seem that way.
There is a difference between having everyone acting in stupid ways to prove his point (Anduin), and another to have to constantly lay contingency plans and deviations in order to keep on track and not fail. Lordaeron had her using 3 different tactics, the war campaign had her going first for the Scepter, then for Derek, and finally for Baine. And even the Makâgora had her going for plan B.
I doubt Blizzard writers are actively having anything twisted in order to validate her character. She has failed in almost every plan she has had since this started.
Being capable of overcoming repeatedly said failures is an entirely different trope (canât recall the name atm).
You know that was Xavius, mocking both Tyrande and MalfurionâŚalthough running off like a crazed Owlbear on el es dee was very unlike the Malfurion Stormrage we saw before that.
Besides that neither Tyrande nor Malfurion were ever powerless, itâs just awfull seeing them hyped as anime powerhouses - Thatâs where I turn offâŚthatâs where the narrative turns dumb.
You know, Iâve been thinking that for a while now, and now that Tyrande and Malfurion(to a lesser extent) are in the spotlights, meaning they may or may not die off, I believe that may verywell be true.
I canât help with any statistics, but we do know that a large number, if not almost all of the original Warcraft team has moved on and been replaced somehowâŚmeaning the current team really has little to no affinity with the original warcraft universe and storylinesâŚas indeed is shown by shoving their own, newer characters into the story, blatantly replacing the original ones.
âNot tying any writers down with continuityâ is another, possible, hint.
Sylvanas isnât a protagonist. She is the scapegoat everyone is supposed to hate cuz garrosh 2.0. Saurfang, Jaina, Anduin. Those fit the protagonist type much more.
Being a villain Sue implies that any of her plans would actually succeed. But so far blizzard has writing it so on purpose to make everything she tries backfire or fail. Unlike Anduin who succeeds at every step of his way because he is so perfect and everyone loves him. That isnât the same. Not at all. But Sylvanas is written as a moron. It is character humiliation notchet up by 12.
I think you confuse Sylvanas with Nathanos and Calia. Those are the author self inserts who are untouchable because of that.