Why are there even genders in the afterlife?

[Deadduchess-silvermoon (Deadduchess)]

Oh right it is weekend.

[Keita-lightbringer]

@Thassarion-khadgar

I actually made this thread to have a conversation on a philosophical matter about souls,

You are trying to make a philosophical argument about human souls by talking about souls in a fictional universe that is completely arbitrary? And you are trying to sound intellectual while doing it.

@Thassarion-khadgar

who, at least in humanity’s religions, do not posses gender (usually).

Maybe if you are a Buddhist.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

You don’t seem to like when people disagree. I have not made this a trans issue or binary issue.

You asked me

Been to the other side to actually know that? If you are talking about WoW’s dead, then yes. But the question is: why? Unless gender has a spiritual meaning, it has no use in a spiritual world, where physics and biology don’t matter at all.

And my answer was

@Punyelf-draenor

It’s part of our identity. Are you saying anyone who does not procreate isn’t entitled to a gender?

My opinion has not changed In death (and in life) gender is part of your identity. Gender is not just a requirement for procreation, it is part of who and what you are, part of your personality, your identity.

You are free to believe whatever you want. I just don’t agree with you.

Edit - missing word, oops!

[Radium-dragonblight]

@Thassarion-khadgar

What about Heaven in Shadowlands (bastion)?

Bastion is not heaven. Also, Bastion is not pure. You will see.

[Thassarion-khadgar]

@Tahra-earthen-ring

They have the personalities of the people they were when they were alive.
They also have an ‘outer shell’ which has a certain look; often, but not always, based on what that person looked like during life.

While your second point about the shell makes sense and is a part of Christianity (Resurrection of the dead), the idea that dead people retain their personality after death could very well be wrong. And that is because when you pass to your spiritual nature, you are free of the body, which affects us all to a great extent (for example, hormones can make us manlier and cockier or the opposite).

@Leejo-argent-dawn

I am not the one seemingly stating that I know how a soul should be defined or how a soul should look.

Souls are fiction, and thus the definition of what a soul is, what a soul looks like, is up to interpretation.

That is one way to look at it, but there is also the other way. In any case, you can prove nothing.

@Astanesh-blackmoore

I feel like you’re confusing the Christian/abrahamic idea of an afterlife and sin with the one that exists in the Warcraft universe.
The shadowlands are not equivalent to heaven, nor is sexual behavior canonically considered a sin in the Warcraft lore.

Because it is not in the Warcraft lore (+12). Revendreth makes nods to purging sins like lust as well. Also, the whole Bastion experience is actually inspired from Christianity, at least visually.

@Keita-lightbringer

Maybe if you are a Buddhist.

Also in Christianity. Human souls are genderless untill they will finally recover their bodies at the end of this world, and still, the resurrected bodies’ gender will not matter at all (since biology won’t play a role in a spiritual state of eternal joy and praise).

@Radium-dragonblight

Bastion is not heaven. Also, Bastion is not pure. You will see.

I know, it is full of blind fanatics. Still, the visual aesthetics of Bastion nod to a pure Heaven, and the Archon dressing quite suggestively does not help with the situation. Of course, it is Blizzard’s world, Blizzard’s rules, but they make the angels of WoW look worldly and quite bad, and it is not the best thing, is it?

[Radium-dragonblight]

@Thassarion-khadgar

they make the angels of WoW look worldly and quite bad

Not angels. White harpies.

[Thassarion-khadgar]

Technically, they are, but they push the message of bad and corrupt angelic beings.

[Ryoshun-argent-dawn]

@Thassarion-khadgar

What about Heaven in Shadowlands (bastion)?

Something called “Bastion” is hardly a Heaven… not to mention it is not a heaven at all!
A brainwashing cult maybe…
I wonder tho’ where are then Una’s parents; we more or less seen/heard them, or at least Una spoke to them
But the whole dead/ghostly Eredar (I don’t think Draenei as the “Exiled Ones” existed when she was… well, became not really alive) kid is strange in the light of the new Lore
Like Shaohao, who lingering around as a ghost emperor…
Or the whole Azsuna fiefdom of Forondis filled with ghost Kaldorei
It seems its easy to slip away from the Judgement of the Arbiter…

[Myrita-doomhammer]

We destroy evil constructs of mangled souls for the specific purpose of freeing them from their amalgamated state to be able to return to being themselves once more even in death. Don’t ruin your individuality after we work so hard to preserve it! Never forget what you were in life!

[Tahra-earthen-ring (Tahra)]

@Thassarion-khadgar

While your second point about the shell makes sense and is a part of Christianity (Resurrection of the dead), the idea that dead people retain their personality after death could very well be wrong. And that is because when you pass to your spiritual nature, you are free of the body, which affects us all to a great extent (for example, hormones can make us manlier and cockier or the opposite).

Well, then why do the Kyrians try so very hard to have their ‘recruits’ let go of their past?

You could be right in that ‘hormones’ and other biological processes no longer influence choices/personality and whatnot, but the essence of who they were in life is still there (proven among other things by the Covenant cinematics).

[Triadne-quelthalas (Triadne)]

@Thassarion-khadgar

As we have seen throughout all of the Shadowlands, souls have genders. Since there is no reproduction process, and everything there is spiritual, and not biological, why is it so?

you pretty much answered your question right there. The souls have gender, without having a body. gender is not the physical shape of a person’s body.

Why don’t people get this? if a man has a horrible accident and loses his private parts, he is still a man for pete’s sake.

your gender is part of who you are. part of your personality.

edit: it’s also as if some people aren’t aware that men and women are different on a psychological and emotional level. the differences in the innate behaviours of men and women are what keep divorce lawyers in business. and why there are so many books for men about how to talk to women and vice versa.

i.e. men are from mars, women are from venus

edit 2: last edit, I promise.
there is also the fact that many people refer to their car as ‘she’. does the car have female reproductive parts now?

[Ryoshun-argent-dawn]

@Triadne-quelthalas

The souls have gender, without having a body.

There is a little gossip-thingy floating around when Draka, Lady Vashj and some other hobo talking about things and all in Maldraxxus
And it was mentioned Lady Vashj decided to stay in the Naga form, instead of the Highborne, simply because thats how she identify herself
I guess same is true for the gender
Its damn hard to shake of a lifetime worth of “experience” and identification as a male/female… and requires truly strong will or very hard belief what you should been while you were alived and choose that form/gender

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

Because its a game, not a theology debate.

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

@Furyeclipser-kazzak

Because souls have chosen with their free will to have gender.

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I ever heard

Ehh… let’s explain it properly…
When you are born you gain identity which is a sum of what and who you are as human.
When you die your soul leaves your body and identity is the part of that soul.

Basically, a soul can have a gender because it has an identity.

[Furyeclipser-kazzak]

@Blinkrush-magtheridon

Sorry but this is the dumbest thing I ever heard

Ehh… let’s explain it properly…

You do realize we are talking about imaginary world here ?

[anon18697826]

Why do you care? Why do people obsess over the gender of others? I don’t even care about my own gender.

[Blinkrush-magtheridon (Blinkrush)]

@Furyeclipser-kazzak

You do realize we are talking about imaginary world here ?

First of all, you are not creating a new idea but talking about an already preexisting idea of a soul that has a description and implications which are logical conclusions of that description.
Secondly, even fantasy ideas need to have some level of logic and reason behind them because otherwise, they will be so abstract that they won’t make any sense.

WoW is using the real-life concept of the soul where a soul is a spiritual form of who you were as a mortal being which means that the soul possesses the identity of the mortal body and gender is a part of that identity.

Your explanation on another hand doesn’t make any god damn sense and it doesn’t make sense because you completely ignored the preexisting concept of soul which WoW is using in its lore.

[Jemhadar-draenor]

Can souls be a part of LGBT vegan group in shadowlands? If not i feel offended.

[Wushupanda-outland]

technically, blizzard doesnt allow nudity, so we dont really know whats down there.

[Warbackxoxo-ravencrest]

Aren’t creatures in Shadowlands usually amalgamations of souls?