You say they don’t but have you tried taking a 3 caster comp of any kind vs a 3 melee comp? Sure there is a few casters that can fit in after you already have 2 melee. Sometimes frost mage, sometimes Boomkin, sometimes eleshaman.
Thing is the absolute most you can take is 1 caster, and still have a GOOD comp. you can take triple melee, and have it be excellent, and double melee at least is required for a great comp. Yes I think it’s fair to say casters suck compared to melee in mythic +.
Your comments are uninformed. Like I said, its completely binary with you.
Melee win - caster suck
All melee comp vs all ranged comp
No middle ground!
i mentioned 2 melee 1 caster comps, and said that is the only way you can ever bring a caster and have a good comp.
You try bringing 3 casters what ever they are vs 3 melee, and tell me they are not a lot weaker.
Just because you can bring 1 caster with 2 melee dps, and have a decent comp, doesn’t mean casters are not really weak right now.
This feels like someone saying shares are a bad investment at the moment because the market is down 20% in a month, then you saying oh but X stock rose 5%.
You’re trying to use a small bright spot to disprove a massive trend. Just because an Elemental shaman can be good with 2 melees, doesn’t by itself stop casters being across the board much worse than melee in mythic +
Melee do have downtimes, huge ones sometimes even difference is positioning for melee ca reduce said downtime a lot.
As for casters, it’s probably a mix of lack of interrupts, utility, overall long time between burst windows and the not being able to put as much input in downtime as melee.
Look at outlaw, they get +range on their attacks and so can dodge a huge number of melee downtime abilities.
Insane survivability
Can perma lock enemies until they die.
Can offtank for a period of time.
Aoe kings.
It is not about melee vs caster, it is about outlaw and dh(and if you pull for the dk unholy) against everything else. If you look at a dps warrry, you would never say melees are op. Same goes for ret, enh, frost dk…
Those 2 or 3 are just miles ahead of everyone else. Additionally the go to tank is warry, so you have a +10% buff for melees. Bring them back in line and you would see more ranges again.
I don’t like the bring back inline mentality, why not bring everything up ![:frowning:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
If outlaw rogues suddenly got nerfed in utility, dmg and defensiveness they will feel boring and gutted and the other classes won’t feel anything other than being more accepted, people will still flock to whatever is meta but if everyone has something going on for them giving them the chance to compete, then it’s a win-win situation for all.
It is not that casters are weak, but they, just like a good deal of other melee (warriors, paladins to name a few) do not have the utility as melee have. Do keep in mind that there aren’t many casters with that many hard CC (beside ele shaman and warlock) and their interrupts are on much bigger cooldown (from anything to 24-25 seconds to full blown 1 minute CD, and one of the warlock specs do not have an interrupt at all.)
A group of 3 casters can still work, but only in specific dungeons. It highlights the importance of only interrupting crucial casts while the rest have to let go through. With two melee it is much easier to keep enemy casters under control.
Casters should be able to move while casting. The only spells that would require you to stand still should be channeled spells.
Reality is if you have a highly skilled player on a caster, great, but the reality is when it comes to average players melee is a win on time in most instance, casters are a disaster.
Even for me I only starting to relearn Disc priest after years of not playing as Holy is only viable so far (too many long hard casts) with limited AOE heals outside of CDs. I’m also working on a druid healer for next season and considering dropping priest entirely once that dam neck is no longer tied to my armour.
Class wise M+ is unbalanced, the timers are the main cause, but also the fact that you basically can’t stand still for an instant in a lot of dungeons.
Tell it to the raid gathering for stormwall blockade.
It’s simple why melee is better for 5 man content, melee usually have to deal with more mechanics than rdd, so melee have more UTILITY.
For rdd the best content is where rough dps matter more
Now construct that comp of warrior+DK+feral. Is it still a god tier comp?
Can we stop pretending that DH, rogue and to an extend WW fills up the entire melee bracket?
Isn’t that because of their utility?
It’s the same for expert players. DrJay, who is one of the best mage players in the world, played a rogue at the MDI matches yesterday.
Yes, it means exactly that.
Mages, hunters, balance druids, warlocks, shamans have all timed +23’s which is bleeding edge. So “weak”
It’s not a small bright spot, all of those classes are perfectly capable of holding their own. It’s just you and all the damn sheep that follow the meta only believe in OP or suck. Theres no inbetween, and no reasoning with you.
Holy is perfectly fine throughput wise for M+ but it lacks utility not “aoe heals”. The fact that you are “looking at rerolling” without even understanding why or pushing your current spec nearly as far as it can go is just symptomatic of everything thats wrong with this community.
Holy lacks cc, stealth, cr, soothe that a druid brings. People don’t bring them for the aoe heals.
Also, you’ve done +12 on time and want to reroll? Why? You’ve not hit a wall.
We have to understand the difference in MDI and highest level M+.
MDI is about ‘zerging’ pulling whole rooms/ships boss to boss and doing the most insane AOE and interrupt/cc all the dangerous stuff. It is damn risky, and we have also seen a good amount of wipes. They also take the risk of less battle-resses for example. There are groups that take a DK as dps for the extra BR though, but they sacrifice single target damage which is important against bosses.
MDI is about doing a +18 as fast as they can. Not about finishing a +24 in time. On +24 players usually do not pull ‘the whole room’, so other classes get more efficient too.
Allthough warrior, resto druid and 2 melee dps seems to work the best on the highest level too… But some caster classes can get in there. It is not that they are bad, it is that they do not help as much in zerging the whole place.
Sorry, what?
You’ll never finish a 24 on time unless you do the “whole room” pulls. Things have almost double the HP of a 15, you cannot possibly do smaller pulls and make the timer.
In the main I have to pug unless one of our very scarce guild tanks is on. And higher key groups generally want druids.
As I said I’m playing druid now as well (only 390ilev yet) but I find it far easier to top off a group with low CD spells like wild growth, lifebloom, swiftmend, that circle on the ground, almost instant rejuve for topping off, and tranq on only a 2 min CD.
All of the above fast healing abilities of a druid are before all the CR you mentioned above. And shadow meld for “suicide” runs to last boss in the likes motherlode.
There really is no comparison. Not to mention the hard casting a priest has to do, be it prayer of healing, flash heal, heal (if under mana pressure), even divine hymn has a 3 min CD and a long channel.
That is not to say that priest isn’t good for raiding. I’m putting out about 40K heals on the first boss in mythic every week and beat druids there hands down (and I don’t spam meters unless there is damage to heal unlike “bad” healers). However for M+ priest can only go so far, personally I feel it will be much easier push as druid next season.
Actually no. The strongest comp right now is 2x rogue, ww monk, war tank and druid heal.
Its pretty much focused on pushing group physical dmg as high as possible.
Than there are some mix comp with dh, dk and casters. But nothing is so strong as whole melee group right now.
Again, can we stop pretending that DH and rogue fills out the entire melee bracket? You bring those two because they provide excellent damage and utility, so much that they invalidate all other specs.
Prot warrior is taken because it’s essentially a fourth dps and invincible.