Sometimes it works the other way round to and PvE players are expected to do some PvP for the best items.
It would be nice if the two were completely separate. Personally preferred it when PvP had it’s own stat (and vendor) and the two didn’t overlap.
Ha? Like you had to farm high rated arena in order to just be viable when going into a raid?
No, it never happened. Not at the power level voidstone or trident currently are. Even nerfed diamond is still good.
Some specs are not playable until you get those items. Even in pve those items don’t have as much impact as they have in pvp (the irony).
The new essences seem to be a pretty big boost, so pve players would have to pvp to get them.
I find it always goes back and forth. When blizzard moves to make PvE unnecessary, people complain about “invalidating their hard work”, until the changes go back.
Did happen to get BiS spellcaster dagger from arena in TBC for SwP .
I agree the PvP system is bad but please dont speak untruths.
For a long time the best trinket for us was via PvP. I’m sorry that it upsets you to think a PvE player could sympathise with a PvP player. That was not my intention. I think the two work best when separated.
You’re talking about best in slot.
Im talking about items turning anywone having them form trash tier to unkillable machine .
So no, never happened before
I sympathise, its another bunch of decisions they made here that make me shake my head.
They need to reduce the efficacy of some of those pve trinkets and really really fast.
(off topic but I once tanked 25 ICC with my druid in full wrathful gear …)
My best guesses… I can’t back them up with facts because they’re based on design philosophy, which WoW devs don’t tend to talk about much.
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When we had dedicated PvE gear and PvP gear, it led to many people who had a mild preference for PvE or PvP getting locked out of one of them due to the gear not being cross compatible.
Back in the resilience days, if you wanted to do PvP, you had to get gear which was only available via PvP. So if you sat out a season, everyone in the PvP scene would crush you and you had no point of entry until the next expansion.
Which is probably why the closes to PvP itemisation is the azerite traits - and they don’t really matter, or at least public perception is that they don’t.
As to why you can’t just get this omni-role gear from PvP - because it’s impossible to balance. People who get an early start, get the gear advantage early, stay at the top of the rankings with less effort than it takes other players to rise from the bottom 6 months later. That’s not true for PvE. You can start raiding at any point, and all things being equal, it should take you as much time to clear a raid as it did the first guilds entering that raid.
So how do you calibrate how long it takes (how many conquest points?) it needs to earn a piece of raid gear via PvP? Do you pitch at the person just starting today, who has a very long, very hard grind up the ladder vs players in much better gear; or do you pitch at the top 100, who will cruise through it easily?
No solutions here; just trying to explain why there are no solutions ![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Good news everyone the … my 2nd fav raid of all time ![:kissing_closed_eyes:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/kissing_closed_eyes.png?v=6" ":kissing_closed_eyes:")
I think that reason is very very simple …
Taking the control of your character away from people …
PvP vendors offered you simple way to focus on your progression, you could calculate AP you get after flush, you knew what rating you need, I remember visiting pvp vendors every now and then and going something like “just few more wins and next week you are mine”
With the system we have now its same like PvE, just spam certain content until your head explodes and wait for miracle …
Second problem I think is resilience, you had one stats that defines half of the game, half of the problems with pvp gearing could be solved by bringing resi back …
And blizz hates that, same reason why blizz hates haste, you can roll pure haste for 99,99% of classes and specs …
Putting my cynical hat on, you may be right. Ion has historically been on record saying that players find the idea of knowing when and how they well get a reward to be boring.
Personally I disagree. I play solidly when I know beyond all doubt that if I persevere I will get the specific thing I want. When it’s just RNG that has a 5-10% drop… I’m likely to skip days. Or weeks. Or just not bother at all.
That said, we already have RNG PvP gear, just not a vendor. I think the OP is wondering why the ilvl doesn’t go as high as raids and M+, to which I’ve tried to give my best answer above: it cannot be balanced without splitting gear up into PvE and PvP specialities again. And that didn’t work out brilliantly at the time
in all fairness the ilvl of gear at high rating is decent + the weekly
You clearly dont understand what this thread is about.
An ilvl advantage sure as hell isnt it.
The shields generated by the new PvE items give you such a huge advantage in PvP. The advantage is so big that they arent just BiS items, they are must haves to compete.
During past expansions some items where good or even BiS. In most cases these where single items that created a small advantage in dmg or healing output.
The current itterations creates a situation that alters the entire way ppl play. Ill put it in to a simple example:
In arenas teams have goes during offensive CDs. So they silence in to CC for example a healer and go for one of the DPS or w/e. This is balanced out by defensive CDs ppl use.
Now the PvE stuff comes in to play. …
Offensive CDs used …no need for defensive CDs since they have massive self shielding abbilities OR a healer that can use a big bubble trinket while being silenced.
Or…
Ppl who normally are forced to watch their positioning are suddenly semi immortal the first 5-10 mins of a game due to multiple items that create shields. To make it worse you opponents whont die either due to the same shields.
Ok, no, I didn’t understand your particular angle on the problem ![:wink:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
Are the shields that big? With 2 shielding pieces, I can rock about 24k of shield every 30 seconds. As a monk, in dps spec, I can hit karma for my entire hitpoints of shield, and on occasion people still choose to blast through it.
I am not a PvPer - I do a battleground a couple of times per week for grins - but from my perspective, the shield adds about 15-20% effective HP, and I don’t get to choose when it goes up.
If the question is entirely about why can’t PvP gear give you that same shielding - I don’t have a good answer for that, other than to suggest Blizz are… not lightning fast when it comes to identifying and acting on balance issues. They like to spend months analysing a situation before issuing nerfs, and they buff even less frequently.
That’s just so not true it hurts. WoD pvp gearing took a great 4-5 hours spent in Ashran, after which you were on par or close enough to everyone else that you could gain rank 1. Several rank 1 players actually rolled alts and got within rank 1 range with less time spend gearing them than 4 hours.
As for the opposite, of PvE being inaccessible, I don’t see it, but if that was a problem the simple solution would have been to up the base stats on PvP gear a bit, not to butcher then whole system to the point where the entire bloody pvp community hates this garbage system they introduced.
And that’s bad because…
Nope, can’t really think of a reason why PvP gear shouldn’t be available though PvP.
Who’s public perception? Azerite traits are gamebreaking in pvp for just about every single class, which makes the whole thing worst.
This is just more bollocks. You can start pvp at any time too. There were catch-up mechanics in place throughout seasons in MoP and WoD to ensure nobody is left behind.
It’s rocket science, but bear with me: you look at how many pieces the equivalent PvE raiders gain on average per week, and you set the conquest cap there.
Kaboom, mind blown!
Lame excuse. The solution is to return to us what we had for years and worked just fine.
#bringbackpvpvendors #bringbackpvpgear
It didn’t work fine for me. I was a hardcore raider TBC-Wrath, but I stepped into a battleground and my tier-6/7/8 raid gear did not do well vs someone in full gladiator gear.
On the other hand, their PvP gear was a joke for raiding and we absolutely would not recruit people who thought that this was good enough just because it was purple.
This is what I mean about a PvP stat splitting players apart. It’s totally fine if you want to propose a new hybrid system involving something like Ashran, plus a PvP stat, but the reason we don’t still have resilience for PvP gear and other stats for PvE gear was because it didn’t work out well.
As for PvP vs PvE calibration… Say the average PvE raider gains 0.33-0.5 pieces per week (which probably is about right, allowing for duplicates and the inability to choose what you get) for 6-9 hours of raiding. Is that 6-9 hours of victories? 6-9 hours of just being in some kind of PvP? What if you’re Alliance and you lose 2 in 3 fights? Do you get a buff so’s to spend as much time at the grindstone as Horde, or do you suck it up and take twice as long to get the same outcome?
Trying to say that what you’re asking for is dang hard, and that’s why it hasn’t happened. Nobody knows how to make it work fairly without a PvP stat, and PvP stats are problematic when they surface. I’m sorry if that’s bad news, but… I’m just the messenger here. No need to shoot me.
Thats irrelevant, does the weekly drop the void stone trinket?
Still busy trying to get the remaining 3/9 pieces for the leather mog… I supportedthe message, always did, from the start but even more after 18 weeks and still being 6/9 mog wise! Not that I want it for mogging into it, but would be nice to get a new mog + scrap once in a while instead of just scrap. With a vendor I could have bought them 1 by 1.
Or the horrible weekly rewards, RNG from chest or determined by the weekly cap. If I need a trinket I want a trinket, not pray to RNG (weekly chest if capping CP) or having to wait several weeks because of rotations.