They are raw stats that DO SCALE with buffs.
GoA and STR totem scale with Lion, ZG Buff, Songflower.
BoM does not. Are we really having this conversation rn?
Yep sure seems like it.
You are here crying that your beloved shaman gets no compensation for it being made raid wide when you benefit from it? Your raid benefits from it? Its a PERFORMANCE buff for one faction only. Alliance does not gain +200 dps because of this change.
It was WORSE than BoM in p3, the same way priest sunder was better in p1 than an other armour debuff, news flash, some spells at lower ranks are better than others. Crazy I know. Now just imagine that HoL had a big enough value that it actually scaled better than BoM with buffs. I’m sure people would actually have used it, Instead of neglecting it. Use your god damn brain man. Lets use this spell that takes up a very competitive rune slot that does less than something we get baseline…
Oh yeah that ability you had for 20 years but could never just flat out use it without totem twisting or it would be a dps loss? The totem that you were clearly asked to drop by every single melee throughout your whole entire shaman career? No one gave a flying about GoA totem when WF was the other alternative. Now you can actually use it and it not be a complete cancer to use. Seems like a pretty good reason to be happy.
Nah, when you make out like your class is gutted because your whole raid can benefit from druids windfury is borderline retarded. “Give us BoM” as compensation like c’mon.
Alliance tanks were struggling to get windfury buff from ferals shredding from behind on rag. Do i agree 100 yards is too generous? Sure. But 30 yards was too small given certain encounters in the game occupying a much larger area than anything else we have experienced in SoD so far. You can position your totems to cover a wider area and then project them if you have to reposition, If the feral physically has to move out for mechanics so does that WF buff. Oh hello geddon, wrath of ragnaros, garr knock backs. Shaman can place totems and move out for mechanics and not gimp their raid for -20% dps, Do I seriously need to continue?
We’ve been aware druid Wildstrikes is better after you reach higher levels of attack power for like 2 phases now, anything that isn’t a flat value is going to be better as we get gear, this isn’t a new discovery. Wildstrikes is % based, WF is flat AP.
Any raid on either faction after their melee reach like 1.6k AP will want to use WS over WF. Which at this stage of the game is any melee with Wbuffs.
And regardless of all of that anyway YOU STILL BENEFIT FROM IT AS A SHAMAN.
You now get better wildstrikes across 20 people and can use GoA??? You do not need to be compensated in any shape or form. You just gained a buff from this. This is not a position to be crying. Unless you stop bringing druids to your raid, you benefit from this change.
Its your raid buff too??? This isn’t an alliance only buff. I can’t man. I stopped replying to you ages ago cause your debates are making me stupid. This is another one of those topics that are sitting on the very edge of being completely brain dead.
Guess what else the shaman brings, resistance totems, cleansing totems, grounding totems, fear break totems. Shaman raid spots aren’t going to be going anywhere outside of people trying to maximise the absolute most out of their raid. But guess what, druids are gonna get that same treatment the moment any dps overtakes them. Our value gets severely diminished by 1 other druid. why bring the bad one when you just bring the good one and whatever melee is top dps for that phase?
Lets be actually realistic for a minute here. You can have WF totem on 100 yard range. Problem solved. You can even have it raid wide at this point. Who cares. But if you seriously think 100 yard Tremor, Grounding, Poison cleansing totem is a reasonable trade off then you are beyond delusional.
Then i’d want that class in my raid so I can utilize the buff? The player brings more to the table than just a buff. The spell might be undervalued but the player still holds value.
Now if you bring nothing as value as a player and your buff is bad, then idk. But currently I don’t have that issue.
Any class that out performs druid will have diminished feral druids value after this change. You don’t bring 2 ferals anymore. You’d bring one. And because of that you will be more picky in which feral you bring. So a lot of ferals are gonna actually lose their spot to higher performing classes anyway. Good ferals will find a party still but bad ferals wont just get picked up for their WS anymore.
Mostly pvp related?? Another place that you benefit from the exact same thing? Both factions share druids both factions benefit from WS in the exact same way. I’m struggling to see how this has anything to do with PvP? Because your suggestion even if it was more than likely sarcasm, was to buff Utility totems to 100 yards which would actually have a HUGE impact on PvP. Wildstrikes, on a feral that for the most part does not run WS in pvp in the first place is not on the same scale as 100 yard totems in PvP.
If you seriously think these two are comparable then we are playing a different game when it comes to PvP.
And you aren’t looking at it from any other perspective other than your own as a shaman. This does effect alliance druids negatively, it also effects both factions positively, and a performance increase to only one.
Bad druids will get benched, Good druids will still find groups. Raid leaders are happy with recruiting and filling spots being easier. Both factions gain access to raidwide wildstrikes, horde gain a very reasonable dps increase from freeing up GoA. Alliance gain a slightly less headache filling their raid roster. Both factions bad players will get benched in favour of the better performing one now.
This is again falling into the category of just wanting stuff that is very clearly never going to happen and for very logical reasons at that. Lets not go back down the route of shamans being the most broken PoS class in existence again. 2 phases was enough. You just gained DPS from GoA. But sure lets inflate that even more with Double dipping into weapon imbues and buffing rockbiter, I’m sure that will turn out just amazingly fine.
You mention PvP earlier and can’t see how these wild suggestions wouldn’t have any negative impact on that side of the game? Or you don’t actually care about the pvp balance side of things? or what little balance there is at this point. Cause in no world would someone who cares about the pvp side of the game be implying 100 yard utility totems and letting shamans double dip into weapon imbues is actually good for the game when it comes to PvP.
Let me just place totems at the bridge in AB before I goto BS. Yep everything seems good here Chief.
Did you seriously think 100 yd totems was a good idea in PvP, Like honestly man? Did you even actually think that through with one tiny bit of logical thought process?
Leave the balancing to the developers that have data.
every buff scales with world buffs though, you were implying that these scale with inherent character power in a way such that gear = stronger buff.
you can now shove in extra non-druids in the raid slots that used to be mandatory/reserved for druids for the sake of windfury.
that is a buff.
you seem extremely gungho on that 200 dps that only counts for absolute top performing guilds, especially considering your faction used to have it but literally opted not to use it.
what a joke.
horde doesn’t “gain” a buff neither, this is literally a thing horde always had.
stop acting like horde was just given a buff like omfg the logic is nowhere to be found.
its a good thing BoM is a buff of its own and does stack with agi/str buff then, isn’t it?
you can thank your gigabrain paladin players for having you believe otherwise.
good paladins that knew the value of str/agi stacked with BoM were using it, but they are obviously few and far between.
whoever gave you the idea that its either str/agi or bom has sold you a bridge somehwere that goes nowhere - you can have both.
ret paladins simply didn’t wanna sacrifice on their precious dps, and so they probably lied through their teeth in order not to use the agi/totem rune.
healer paladins were happily using horn of lordaeron alongside bom, but i dare you to find me a holy paladin even today, after they got buffed.
and here is that ungratefulness again.
good that they took the rune away from you, you clearly don’t deserve nor appreciate it.
all it takes is 1 paladin to run this rune being put in the best performing melee group to gain value out of it.
not hard considering that when it was around, the max raid size was 10 man.
once again, both str/agi and bom can be stacked.
you don’t have to choose between them.
you can use both and gain more scaling value from your buffs.
your ret dps is anyway, use your brain man.
you were better off buffing the real dps with stats than running whatever garbage you were running in its place.
in a vanilla setting shamans had no buttons to press other than stormstrike and earthshock on cooldown anyway, might as well totem twist for GoA and WF totem.
again, like i pointed out myself in my very first post; we can now use agi totem flat out and not have to worry about putting wf.
that’s like the only positive aspect about this bs change.
the 100 yard aura is completely overkill, and you have to admit that.
it is far more range than any melee group in a raid setting will ever need, and its going to have a negative effect on pvp in particular.
30 yards would have been plenty enough, and i don’t think there is viable justification for giving it 100 yards.
there’s a reason totems didn’t have 100 yards to cover the battlefield from blacksmith to lumbermill and farm, because its bloody OP, especially considering that the source that now provides WF is not a 5 health totem, but a highly mobile druid who can go bear form and sit at 10k+ hp, heal himself and other bs like that.
if this is going to be the new meta for auras, they need to change everything to 100 yards (i prefer they revert these auras to a lower range if i had the luxury of choice because that’s what balance is) and not play favorites like this.
give us something else then.
trading WF for freedom was never a fair trade in the first place, and the fact it is now being made even better for the druid that provides it is just insult to injury.
ask anyone whether they’d rather have freedom or WF and 100% of people will say they’d rather have WF, because WF is flat out better and more valuable than freedom.
this salt is ancient.
it was bs from the moment it was announced that alliance would get WF (and formerly agi/str buff) and horde would get freedom/kings, and people simply grew used to it.
feel free to look into it if you doubt that people thought this was an atrociously unfair trade.
thanks, that’s the primary issue here.
100 yards is far too much.
it needs to be reduced to 30 or even 20.
i think 30 is fair because druids are not always able to position themselves such that it reaches both tanks and dps otherwise, but assuming its 30 yards, that is plenty to reach everyone assuming you don’t position yourself like an idiot and you got even a modicum of spatial awareness.
i disagree.
but lets say for a moment i didn’t, right?
the fair move would be to make totems 40 yards baseline and then perhaps make druid aura 40 yards as well.
again, 30 yards is plenty enough.
the druid needs to stop being a potato and position himself better if he has trouble providing the buff to everyone simultaneously.
can you name an example where 30 yards would not suffice?
ahh i see, well guess what bro, the buff lasts 10 seconds once applied and gets refreshed every 2 seconds.
it doesn’t vanish the second the druid moves out of range, so these bosses are literally not an issue.
druid has tools such as dash to get back into position if he gets a really bad garr knockback (btw skill issue, position yourself better so you don’t get knocked to Narnia).
the act of shapeshifting also removes the slow effect if i am not mistaken so there is rarely ever a scenario where the druid can’t get back into position within the 10 seconds leeway he has.
and you know what, god forbid the buff gets knocked off for a second or two?
what is this sentiment even.
are you suggesting this should never ever happen?
ok, might as well just get rid of the aura and just give every class inherent windfury if that is the case, because if the sentiment is “you can’t ever lose windfury or its over gg” then why even bother having it be a buff that is prone to fall off due to positioning issues?
wow totems have an objective advantage.
an upside.
a positive.
outrageous.
you know what else totems have?
5 health.
20 yards range.
2 minute duration.
costs mana and GCD.
need i continue?
yeah and now it was just flat out buffed to always apply no matter how bad the druid is at positioning.
wonderful.
the paladin you are fighting at BS can now suddenly pop WF hits on you despite druid being so far away he doesn’t even render on the screen.
wonderful.
this is a problem, and you’ll notice why soon enough.
casters and other non-wf users are going to have a field day crying about this bs in the coming weeks, as they damn well should.
it was already rough playing caster in pvp, and now they are looking at a scenario where everyone they face up against are going to have wf and there’s nothing they can do about it.
better stay out of range i guess.
for the third time; this is not comforting whatsoever.
windfury is a shaman signature spell.
druid getting a better version of it in the first place was an outrage.
and now druid is getting their version buffed further while shaman’s wf falls further into obscurity.
shamans WILL lose raid spots as a result.
you can’t convince every raid leader that your str and agi buff will be enough to justify a raid spot.
like i said, 1 druid can now cover the job of up to 4 shamans, which means shamans will lose out on value.
you now need just 2 shamans instead of 4 to cover 2 potential melee groups in all the valuable buffs they want.
2 shamans will be enough to provide 2 groups with agi and str.
formerly you’d need 4 shamans (or 2 shamans + 2 ferals) to get wf and str/agi for these 2 melee groups.
this means shaman gets shafted, so while it maybe be a “buff” in the sense that the shaman is now free to use agi totem, it is not a good thing for him, personally because he has lost value as a raider.
stop acting like this isn’t way more significant as alliance than it is as horde.
you have 1 class as source for your wf.
horde has 2 classes, and one of them is abundant and has WF baseline.
hence this buff in wild strikes being raidwide and 100 yards will be far more valuable to alliance than it will be for horde.
horde wasn’t struggling with getting WF covered, alliance, however, was struggling to get it.
can you now, then?
or can’t you even still?
because this is objective fact.
lmao get lost then.
i’m not forcing you to reply.
you clearly lack nuance when it comes to this issue, hence why you think its stupid to complain about it.
again, this is because from an alliance perspective this change is great, and you can’t see the issue this presents for horde players - shaman players specifically - who just had their value as a class diminished by token of alliance players crying about lacking WF sources.
then stop participating in the debate.
like just walk away dude.
resistance totems (fire res) shares element with both cleansing totems, so its not that shamans brings all these, its that shaman bring EITHER FR totem OR poison OR disease cleansing totem.
as for grounding and tremor, those are wind and earth elements, which share slot with agi, wf and str, stoneskin totems, making them severely unattractive options in a raid setting.
if you are using grounding, you are giving up agi/wf.
if you are using tremor, you are giving up str or even stoneskin totem which as a tank shaman is a significant problem.
also tremor has a 5 second tick rate which is god awful but that is a different topic.
haha this is only by token of shaman now being strong on his own and actually justifies his spot through his own character power, whereas before that was far from the case.
you could be a world best tier shaman and still get dismissed in favor of a warrior in mickey mouse green gear because he’d pull better numbers.
as for druid having their value diminished - this is very true as well, you are starting to see the light.
better git gud if you don’t wanna get benched now because like you said, 1 druid can now cover WF needs for the whole raid, reducing your chance as a feral to get a raid spot if you can’t justify your raid spot through your own character’s power.
one might even say; why bring the druid? rogue has utility poisons, paladin has buffs, warrior has 2 shouts + sunder etc. and hunter has the sheer dps + lion buff, pet and stings.
have fun!
i will admit this notion stems from a place of anger and dissatisfaction, but something should be done to compensate shamans, and i don’t think simply giving windfury totem 100 yards range would suffice tbh.
i’d settle for all utility totems i.e stoneskin, str, agi, wf, and resistance totems being buffed to 100 yards while other totems such as tremor, grounding and such niche totems being given a small buff in their range of effect to say 40 yards baseline.
at least don’t insult us with 2-set bonuses that give us what should be baseline, taking up a valuable set bonus slot while you give another class our buff and slap 100 yards on it, that is outrageous and unfair.
you seemed to understand the point i was making here previously in your comment but then suddenly forgot the point here.
the point i was making is that now that this other class can provide what you can provide but better, your value as a class has been diminished and you could lose a raid spot as a result.
if the hypothetical mage could bring int buff + undispellable druid buff that also gave thorns and +10% crit damage, there would be 0 reason to bring a druid for motw/thorns specifically… sure you might wanna bring a druid for other reasons, but that’s missing the point being made entirely.
bingo.
now you get it.
pvp is a different scenario from pve (raid) entirely.
they are not “the same thing”.
to even act like this isn’t the case is disingenuous.
casters (non-wf users) in general, on both factions, will suffer in pvp as a result of this change because there’s a 90% likelihood that their opponent will have wf on even if there is no druid in your immediate vicinity.
as long as the druid is within 100 yards, that guy you are fighting is going to be sporting WF.
the druid providing the buff could be completely unaware that a fight is taking place and still assist his teammate directly through providing WF because the radius is simply that large now.
that means your brain has some growing to do, because this is obvious if you think about it for more than 5 minutes.
i think you are being blinded by my ‘outrageous’ demand for compensation here.
try to forget what i said about the totems for a second, and consider the impact 100 yards mobile WF will have in pvp.
a druid sitting in the middle of field of strife in AV can cover the entire field of strife in WF now.
how does this NOT impact pvp significantly?
imagine if this was immolate instead of wf and everyone in 100 yards took tick damage every few seconds.
then i bet you’d notice the impact of that 100 yards right quick, correct?
tbh you are right about this, but now that you mention it, it does in fact impact druids as well - negatively so.
so thanks for opening my eyes to more reasons why this change is bad.
both druids and shamans overall are losing value because of this change.
if they didn’t provide pack buff and str/agi totems they’d be completely shafted when it comes to utility.
just you wait until they make these raidwide too.
at some point you’ll be impacted directly by bad changes like this, and when that happens i want you to remember this conversation.
this could all be done without the 100 yards aura.
30 yards would be enough.
40 if you wanna stretch it by arguing positioning issues and/or shaman 2-set bonus, but there is no world where 100 yards can be justified.
the logical reason for shaman not getting to use WF is non-existent.
this is our CLASS buff, yet we are the only ones who don’t get to benefit from it?
that’s retarded.
shaman tanks are doing like 100 damage per swing lmao.
wf would be nothing but flavor.
i’m not saying we should be able to run 2x weapon imbues, i’m saying we should be able to use our weapon imbue (which is mandatory in rockbiter because rockbiter = way of earth) and benefit from wf/ws aura for an extra hit every now and then.
btw, in case you forgot, they absolutely gutted the attack power bonus of rockbiter.
even when improved by talents this imbue gives like 150 attack power.
the only reason to use it at all is the threat buff provided by way of earth rune.
just to clarify; this weapon imbue used to provide 600 attack power in vanilla and the only reason it was gutted was because tank shamans were dual wielding in phase 2 and running double rockbiter with way of earth which was just crazy broken.
the way of earth rune has since then been changed to only work with a shield, and now we can’t even cast spells further than 10 yards if we’re using it as well, so this attack power nerf from the past is completely unwarranted at this point and should be reverted.
rockbiter has been reduced to nothing but a “threat+” weapon imbue that does nothing other than applying the bonuses of way of earth by token of having that rune tied to it.
imagine running rockbiter without way of earth rune on, like bro its so bad now lmao.
Wild Strikes being 100 yards and raid wide means we can use Grace of Air (3,5%-ish crit for us or Tranquil Air to compensate for tanks who refuse to build for threat…
So I don’t mind at all. I hate having to use WF totem and forgoing the two other alternatives. However, totems need to be 5 minutes or off GCD.
Horde was choosing between buff melee group with WF and twist totem for GoA or just default WF totem. Now you can default GoA. You don’t think this is a buff when it means even new people to class can do this basic function to increase raid dps? It not competing with WF is a good thing.
" Horn of Lordaeron is exclusive with Blessing of Might , meaning your party will have to determine which Blessing it prefers."
So when horn cast from the pala is WORSE than just using improved BoM yes. They just use BoM…
Hpala were the only ones using HoL because of the sunken temple set bonus…
You don’t understand how the spell works or what exclusivity means. I’m gonna end this discussion about HoL here. It was bad when it does LESS than a non rune ability that every dps paladin was running without sacrificing dps to gain less than they would just pressing BoM…
Now that its actually a point it would be useful to run over BoM its gone, It’s not being ungrateful its understand how the game works and what is actually gonna be more dps. At the time it was BoM.
100 yards is overkill, 40-45 yards is more than likely fine to cover even the most scuffed positional requirements in regards to covering the people that actually benefit from it. (Melee and tanks) Yes losing WF for a few seconds is impactful especially if its your tank and its early in the fight, getting living bombed early with a warrior tank getting parried for example. Make this 45yd aura only apply to PvE and have wildstrikes remain as it has been range wise for the rest of SoD in PvP.
As someone that only pvps as feral and doesn’t touch boomie, SOTF is the goto pvp rune, not WS. druid without SOTF aren’t tanky, even with survival insincts frenzied regen, one mortal strike is enough to ruin frenzied regen, any magic damage will blast bear too, rogue with sebacious. If you aren’t running SoTF you are floor pov.
You make out like freedom is useless when its one of the reasons that shamans aren’t trained into the ground anymore? So during AV meta when everyone was being entrapped by ice cancer for the whole entire game, tell me how much value you get out of windfury compared to freedom? I’ll wait.
Alliance AND horde gained wildstrikes. We both benefit from wildstrikes, we both benefit from lion aura. You gained basically reverse salv for you tank to let the raid pump more, on a faction that DOES MORE DAMAGE. whether that is through racials or having access to more buffs in the first place. Ally gained wildstrikes and lost EVERY single advantage they had in PvE. The only things ally had over horde was weapon skill racials on humans, salvation/kings and fearward. I’d say the trade off for wildstrikes was pretty fair.
Are you mad we got warchiefs blessing too? lol
First example that comes to mind is in rags room, if you only had 1 druid that druid could not shred the boss and had to go mangle instead putting parry haste chance into the tank and being in a terrible position to actually get healed. If druid is max ranging and able to shred the tank doesn’t get WF even if they are dipping toes in the lava.
If any situation occurs that the druid has to pick up adds and separate from the main group bye bye WS. I still think 100 yds is too much but 40yds same range as heals would cover bad positional fights and knockbacks / area denial.
The buff reapplies every 5 seconds not 2. You get living bomb back to back on geddon and there goes WS buff, you are the off tank of your raid and you have to pick up adds but are the only source of wildstrikes to the melee group? Anytime you step out to do your role bye bye wildstrikes.
If you are letting one of your biggest raid damage increases drop off, yes that is a bad thing, should it never happen? ofcourse not but if its happening on ragnaros for the majority of the fight then its bad.
Your totem doesn’t have to move out for mechanics YOU do. You can place and reproject to accommodate any movement that you yourself as a player need to do. You cannot do that as a druid unless you want to grief mechanics to do so.
Considering this is a topic mainly aimed at PvE, yes please continue. A GCD for a 2minute lasting ability seems worth the 1 sec global to press and mana cost, 20 yard range for something that you can move accordingly even when you need to dodge mechanics. Yes it seems like a positive. Nice observation. Now if your totem was anchored to your back and you never had to press a global for it but it was still 20 yard range and anytime you had to fight rag it never hit your tank. (You probably have to position differently anyway since you have a mana bar as DPS) But for the sake of the argument you were stacking with melee in this situation and you can only use stormstrike from behind the target. I’m pretty sure you would come to the conclusion this is bad too.
If the druid is running wildstrike he isnt tanky even in PvP gear and bear form. I play druid and basically almost PvP BiS (missing cloak). I know they aren’t tanky if they run WS. If they are trying to be tanky they are running SoTF, Survival insincts, Frenzied Regen.
Casters are dominating PvP wdym? The only melee regarded as being actually good in this meta are Rogue and possibly Paladin. Boomies, Spriest, Ele, Hunter even though cant really call them a caster are all performing far better than any other melee even with WF lol.
If you cannot be happy with a dps increase then idk what will please you. It’s not like they stripped you of everything and left you in the cold.
You still swing 2x with WF on your weapon no? Your signature spell is still special bro.
You just aren’t required to be totem bot for WF anymore. You still can if you don’t have druid. Any raid leader that was running that many shamans already for WF buff will definitely see the value of GoA/STR being across their raiders what do you mean? I don’t know the average horde raid composition but it doesn’t sound much different to ally.
I assume most would run at least 1 for mangle debuff and FF +1% hit, and fill the other with shaman. Ally just had to run 2x feral for WS.
The 100 yards being valuable for alliance sure, but you cannot argue that the buff is insignificant for horde or it won’t be valuable when as I’ve already mentioned most raid leaders that actually care this much to be cutting people from the roster will be using wildstrikes over WF regardless of any of these changes because it does more. The 100yd value and raid wide shares the same benefits across both sides. But now you gain access to 20% WStrike across the raid and can use something that increases your raids dps.
How can you honestly deny that this doesn’t benefit you in the same way if not more than ally?
Having these tools in your back pocket are attractive options to people with braincells. You generally aren’t using fire res and poison cleanse at the same time my point wasn’t of using everything but it having access to tools for situations that other classes do NOT.
Tremoring some AoE fear is gonna be a bigger dps gain across the raid than str or agi unless you can guarantee fear ward to cover everyone for every fear that goes out then ofcourse it wont be. Freeing your healers on cleansing is a massive quality of life that cannot be overlooked. Luckily now you can stop looking at “I must drop WF every single time” and see that the rest of this toolkit now actually has a lot of benefit inside of a raid setting by allowing more uptime.
I can’t speak for tank, i imagine losing mitigation is terrible. But as a DPS I cannot see a downside of this change of being allowed more freedom in your totems to cover a wider variety of raid mechanics without being flamed for forgetting to replace WF totem.
This also gives a reason to still keep running 4 shamans, So you can gain access to tremor and agi/str totem for example. 5 second tick is bad. won’t deny that.
There will always be cases of just bring the better class or better player or better buff or better whatever the reason is at that time. And this will mainly only apply for people trying to push speedruns/parses, your average dad guild isn’t going to start benching players that have been consistent.
I care enough to not be deadweight in the raid and retain my spot. The people I raid with know I’ll eat the L to save the raid from a wipe and go bear, or switch roles if needed. If this is a random pug feral out there then this will very much likely be their reality. Just bring the hunter instead we have WF already.
Actually more reasonable suggestions. I’d advocate for the same thing I said about WS. Make it 40yards and only work in PvE.
I could be saying the same thing about feral 4pc. Everyone else got that for free on a rune and now we will be stuck wearing this tier set bonus forever since its 8% damage increase. It is unfair lol.
I think I’m missing the point because I can justify bringing more to the table than the buff as a player, unless my class becomes F tier for some reason I can still perform well enough to compete for my spot in the raid. My class value might have gone down but unless I’m playing from the absolute gutter I still bring value as a player.
I can fully understand that the class has its value undermined with changes like these. But unless you are solely bringing people to the raid for that buff then their value as a player isn’t being valued any less.
This is only my opinion but if you aim to perform well even on a mid tier class people will see your value for at least 80% of the groups out there. There will be people playing the absolute best of the best and still playing terrible. I’ve seen more good players on mid tier classes than on S tier classes for what its worth.
If we are talking about both factions and it being neutral here. Then yeah I missed the initial point. I originally took it as this is purely a one faction benefits from this change. Whereas both factions are benefitting from 100yd WF in pvp. It’s not swinging to one faction for bias.
100 yards is still too much and I agree. Strictly make any of these range increases only apply to PvE if they are to remain 100.
The druid is still open to being killed, unless the druid is sat afk in stealth in the middle of field of strife it isn’t going to cover the whole radius. I’m still not trying to argue for 100 yard range in PvP its dumb. But the class unless it isn’t actually participating in PvP is still open to die. And if they are running WS instead of SoTF they are going to die fast.
Pack buff alone isn’t enough of a reason to bring them in the first place lol. It is one of the least impactful buffs sadly. If there were better talent options to be taken you would take them. It was worse last phase to run LoTP over running omen of clarity. The druid made up more dps alone than 3% crit over 4 people.
Unless I lose interest in the game and start playing terribly every fight then I think I will be able to find groups throughout SoD. But I will keep that in mind if that situation ever comes up to eat my words.
Enhances uses their own version of WF in their mainhand anyway which provides 2x swings, your class does benefit you. It just doesn’t benefit the raid as much anymore.
Then make it work the same way wildstrikes works for druid, The shaman that casts it gains an aura for WF so whatever is on your mainhand is unaffected by it. But this still holds the problem of it doesn’t have some restriction to it and bleeds over to PvP which suddenly that extra attack becomes a lot less flavour and a lot more meaningful.
I’m aware the AP bonus got gutted from rockbiter but when you say “Personal imbue” that isn’t limited to rockbiter and means flametongue and WF and we all know where I am going with this… I don’t need to make the point of why this is bad when we talk about PvP.
Rockbiter AP nerf was justified TBH it was stupid the levels of AP they were reaching in gnomer via dual wield. WoE needed to be nerfed because it was turning everyone into a juggernaut in pvp with little to no trade off. Limiting to shield only stopped DW from using it but then Ele just used it instead. The range got nerfed cause the crossover into PvP meant ele shamans were running WoE and having tactical nukes ontop of stupid survivability.
Considering the new defense scaling of 1 def = xAP/SP I don’t think giving any tanks an inflated 600AP is a good thing to be doing at all. Lets not go back doing insane damage and being close to unkillable. If you are holding threat from DPS not having to hold their DPS then everything is working as intended. Especially when mental dexterity is a thing.
600AP rockbiter being able to be used with windfury without some restriction means enhance dps just use both for free 600 ap and 2x attacks.
This isn’t a good for the game in either pve or pvp.
about GoA totem when WF was the other alternative. Now you can actually use it and it not be a complete cancer to use. Seems like a pretty good reason to be happy.