I like buffs if they add to the class fantasy but any ability that has a cd shorter than its duration should either be a passive or removed.
Button bloating for no good reason is not cool.
not anymore ! and no wow was not always an rpg even back in the day , arena was intruduced in burning crusade ( which is where i started playing the game ) and there was nothing RPG about arenas . so even by past standards this is not entirely true .
as for class fantasy and design , as if you want only X class to have Y ability im assuming thats what you are asking such as i want Warlocks to be the only class in the game to have access to summon stone and healthstones because it fits their class fantasy or what ever ⌠this one in combination with the fact that you have been playin wow since vanilla i think its safe to say im talking to a boomer ( No offense intented just dont know how to descibe it any better )
sadly there is not much i can say here to help you understand how this stuff is damaging the game because at the end of the day you would prefer the boomerism mentality of oh the good ol days of me casting blessing of retribution other than whats healthy for the current state of game . which is fine i respect that
If anything, the issue with 1-hour buffs is that they are fire-and-forget type of abilities cast once at the start of an instance, and then mayyyyybe cast again if someone dies mid-run. If they were extremely expensive and similarly powerful in their effect as they used to back in the pre-Cata era, theyâd not seem to be âuselessâ.
1-hour buffs should:
- Become 15 min in duration.
- Become expensive and linearly increasing in resource cost with number of targets affected
- If the user does not have a mana bar, then it should cost health to cast it
- Have their effect increase so that it is noticeable, not these 3% and 5% values they currently have. Make them 10% minimum
Paladin doesnât have to be a buffer. Itâs a holy warrior though. Heal, perhaps, and a damage spell maybe. But doesnât have to be a buff of some sort necessarily.
I think that buffs are used to complicate things, to make it uncertain how well someone or something performs as the values rise in complexity.
And I think theyâre used to create more pushable buttons, the main purpose. Which may or may not be good for the game, I donât know. But I prefer things straightforward, and thereâs only that many ways a heal may be expressed.
Seems pretty long way of saying that cant bother having one buff binded on some one button, or click feast on ground or some food from bag. I dont find making binds or buffs hard.
You should try classic if you find it hard in retail. Classic you farm dozen world buffs in advance and then log out till raid night cause you cant have them lose duration, on raid night you beg someone for summon to the raid so you dont risk losing your buffs. They wouldnt even need the buffs to clear the raid. Now imagine in retail some class just press one button for buff and eats food and his set, thats progress.
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I like buttons. But I like fundamentals more, like movement.
What if the buttons hide the ugly fundamentals, like the poor line of sight and the crude basic movement?
But I guess weâre talking full new game for that.
Because the player base at large is split mostly equally between the classes. When you have raid buffs, almost all raids want one of each class, and then some extra of the FOTM specs.
Without raid buffs, you have the playerbase split almost equally between specs, and all the guilds that want for the 30-50% meta specs that are better for the raid. The other 50-70% of the classes/specs can just go throw rocks.
As for how is that helping:
www.reddit(.)com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1e4283f/wow_winning_rwf_comps_since_legion_including_tank/
Comps from legion until now. GL wanting to play when the meta is âbring 5 druids and 5 rogues in a 20 man raidâ.
While legion was good, you cannot be seriously saying that noone was complaining. From day one you had people complain about how legendaries were totally random and widely unbalanced between them. Also spec balance is 100 times better than back in legion, where if you wanted to even play serious m+, half of the specs were unable to.
Exactly. They are part of class identity.
And they arenât even that much needed in theory. Content is designed to work with a multitude of constellations, allowing certain classes to be better in certain areas than others. If everyone was as effective the same, why even have classes?
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Right, you âneedâ all these classes. Quite a bold statement, do you have any evidence that without them, Heroic and the first few Mythic bosses are unkillable?
But if you genuinely believe that, letâs remove them. Now, hereâs a situation: Frost DK is 1.2% better DPS than the second best spec (and more than the rest of the specs) on 3rd boss on the raid. Similar situation with healer and tank.
Congratulations, now you need 6 Frost DK, 2 Disc Priest and 2 Veng DH.
So instead of 6-8 classes, only 3 specs can play the game.
How is that better, exactly?
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that sounds like a skill problem rather than a class design problem , you guys want buffs to be in this game to make up for the lack of participation you have for group i have seen this all over the place playing this game âŚ
if the gap is only 1-2-3% even if the gap is 5% which is usually a rare thing considering how class balancing numbers for both raid and m+ has widely been closed out over the expansions you will never ever need to bring 6 frost dks and 2 disc and 2 veng , you will simply just recruit the better player for your guild or if your playing m+ then you have other sources like logs and rio ( while not very effective they are better than nothing )
but no if the buffs are in this game and you are in a situation where that 5% stamina or that 3% vers is just to juicy to leave it out on the table , well then you have to play with someone you wouldnt or even perhaps shouldnt play with ! thats unhealthy thats just promoting false credit and sadly wow is not the only game advocating this . its becoming more and more common as we progress towards the future of gaming , devs just giving out free B for nothing just cause some ppl cant stop complaining and want something for nothing .
resilience keys are also another great form of false credit , we have seen how people started boosting other people with resil keys endlessly and the title cut out kept rising out of the blue day after day ⌠you literally have some people that couldnt do 15s in s1 and now suddenly they are 3.9k rio hireing 1 dude to bring resil key for them endlessly
Well he does speak for me.
And yes. Sometimes removing things is the way to go.
Like in RL. Rules were made for X context. If the context changes, so should the rule.
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You want somebody with a ego that size speaking for you be my guest 
i just wish people wouldnt use âweâ as they do not speak for all and to be frank he is a troll but i respect your view as always.
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Look at them like salt or pepper for your meal.
Some of the foods would be extremely disgusting without salt.
It adds a little bit of flavour even if you donât see it.
Some of the stuff is thematic.
Like Priest stamina itâs the staple of the class, or Arcane Intellect if you say it, you know itâs MAGE giving you intelligence to be a smarter character, therefore youâre gonna do more DMG, etc.
But again, we had BOK, BOM in BFA and we lost it going into Shadowlands, I think.
Some of the classes can lose their staple buffs, and some of them can have it.
Blizzard these days is very inconsistent about what will be deleted from the game and what will be brought back.
To be honest, you are right. The form of OPâs post blows. Its just the content what agrees with my POV.
Also im kinda biassed with this subject. I have been complainig about it for too long.
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okay here is a solution for you , make it cosmetic , whenever you cast something with arcane intellect you have a chance to spark some cosmetic . there you go you can feel cool and special and feel like a mage still .
there is no need for someone to just press 1 single Button on theyâre keyboard and participate like 10% increased dmg towards the whole fight . you can literally and i mean literally press mark of the wild in a 20 man raid and go AFK - AWAY FROM KEYBOARD - just watch the fight and you will participate in that fight in a meaningful way ( same thing with m+ ). thats just absurd to me or any logical human being .
but if your view is like Prime boomerism where you have this mindset of oh but we use to have this in vanilla and its so nostalgic etc etc ⌠i cant change that , and its okay i mean no offense its just boomers being boomers cant think past a certain threshhold . its all guucci
all that being said i have no problem with raid buffs if other classes had them , AKA if dk also had battle shout , or rogue also had it , or warlock having arcane intellect and mage having gateaway in some sort of opening arcane doorways ⌠you get the point the problem is that they make it unique and available only and only to 1 class or sometimes even 1 spec in case of aug/disc thats just garbanzo lazy design
calculator 
minesweeper is pretty good too and battleships but would need friend to play that 
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If you donât like discussion, donât post on a forum.
And how are there no buffs in solo games?
Is it that you mean: If you donât like others buffing you, play solo?
How does that work with puritan class roles: Tank, damage, heal? The core of the topic.
Is it that you really mean: If you donât think like me, donât post.
Iâm like that too, a lot admittedly. Donât worry about it, but think.
The case against buffs is that they create an irrelevant need for a class when it is arbitrary what class you pick as all damage does damage and all healers heal, and all tanks tank. And they all do that about as well as any of their peers. And if they donât do that, there is an issue with the class as it cannot keep up with its main objective or main role.
Back in the day we all needed a buff bot in DAoC, standing safely behind walls. All needed an extra account for that. Which is a constructed reason to pay a subscription. Any buff bot would be just that. Imagine if you kept a buff bot with every raid, what a scandal!
But what if every other class is 1/20 buffbot, and everyone bring a little bit of that. Then it doesnât show anymore but you still have to bend and turn towards it.
Thatâs the case made.
Then I am not sure how much I actually love the topic creator in person. Donât think we share views much. This is derived from person quota, which I personally support despite being a meritocrate. Thatâs because I absolutely believe thereâs many who can support the same standard despite varying degrees. But yes, that would depend on the job also. For some jobs, only perfect is enough; admittedly, but those are few and far inbetween. Itâs mostly just people patting their backs, trying to feel better about what theyâre doing than what theyâre actually needed to perform. âŚ
So then we get to talk about if you should get dps 1 or dps 2, where dps 2 has 5% less dps.
I think both are equal, they will both get us through and it doesnât really matter.
Others think differently on this, they will want dps 1 in all cases. Actually, they will wait for hours to get dps 1.
Whoâs right then?
I am, for standard play.
But if youâre already backed up, the team only so so and youâre feeling insecure about your performance; then dps 1 will definitely be much hotter, in all cases, but that means you either have a weak team or it means you are trying something challenging.
Then itâs like⌠Iâm thinking that do we really all have to be frontier to get the best things?
Perhaps.
Does it have to be a competition on a timer?
Perhaps it does.
Not sure. I wouldnât make it like that. But Iâm also not sure if it actually affects me. I havenât even begun with all that stuff yet. I could probably play this for a year without doing any of that. I just have my opinion on elitism and how bad that is for the game, any game.
Which is just that, an opinion. I wouldnât join anyone like that, who would say that dps 2 is garbage for making 5% less damage. Thatâs bozo talk, imo. Letâs go, Iâd say. And if weâd lose, Iâd just shrug and get back on next week, with dps 2.
Others have other opinions, for their reasons. No one likes to lose, so every possible guarantee of victory should be secured. Right⌠or wrong. What cost? That dps 2 can never come? Not your problem? Well, I think it is. Gameâll die without dps 2, eventually.
This would be incredibly boring
Thereâs nothing fun about buffs, you know. Activity is where itâs at.
But the buffs does make it so that thereâs a certain guarantee you need a class.
Meaning thereâs a guarantee you wonât get 5 warlocks every game.
it already is very boring , specially when you have to spent a long time for a class that can press 1 button and add some extreme % of dmg to the fight to show up on you queue list or guild app . but sadly you dont see it that way