Cannot progress unless I play exactly as intended

General Discussion PC
1

I know there are several posts on some of these points, but they often end up escalating into people just arguing I do not wish to do that or tell people they should change the game. I am trying to understand if I can do something to better my experience or this is just not the game for me anymore.

To give you a very brief context of where I am coming from: I have played this franchise since D1 (sometimes I still do for nostalgia reasons) up to D3, and I liked all of them for different reasons. There are also some aspects that have never worked for me personally, like how the endgame always felt like the least enjoyable part of the game where if you did not do your hours of research online on how to make specific builds, you cannot survive long. That never stopped me from loving the franchise and I’ve played until the game made it impossible for me to progress.

This is perhaps the first Diablo I gave up playing after 20+ hours, I feel the issues I encounter during the previous Diablo endgames are present from the very start. I feel like I am promised freedom of choice on how I want to build my character and yet once I reach level 40 on the Druid, Rogue or Barbarian I hit a wall of difficulty that just makes this game not so much fun for me to play.

I have read online it is because I have to try different builds, but I do not get it, where is the point for the game to give me all of this freedom of skill choice, and yet if I do not do exactly as I am told, I cannot progress? For instance, I wanted to do a full Werewolf based build with the druid, or full ranged with the Rogue, but I read that’s stupid and you cannot progress unless you mix it with other skill from other branches, but then I wonder why does the game give me such false freedom, and why not just give me premade build trees from where I cannot go wrong if I choose them (like D3 did) since that’s kind of what the game is doing at the moment anyways?

In previous Diablo games I could get around issues by farming a bit, getting stronger and then repeat the challenges that blocked my progression, however that is not even possible in this game because enemies level up with you. In the end I feel like I am getting weaker as my class is progressing and I wish there was a way to disable my levelling up so the difficulty would remain bearable, but it is such an underwhelming feeling.

I have spoken to every NPC, listen to every bit of lore and dialogue because I love this world, but I honestly do not know how to bring myself to play it anymore because it has become too frustrating to progress. By no means I am a hardcore player, but neither I am a casual player who moves on after the game is over, so I find myself really perplexed on what to do next.

14 Likes
2

Free choise is somewhat of an illusion yes, thing is, unlike d3 d4 is 100% about synergys, and a weak skill can become strong if the right buff synergy is found.
That beeing said, game is 90% about beeing hit by a large group, so area of effect damage is the way to go.
The aim of a build is to have strong aoe and strong single target damage for the bosses.

Basic wherewolf dont have strong aoe and that is why they are not recommended.
To get an easier life as druid, storm or bear is the easiest way to go, it offers strong aoe and strong single target damage.
For rogue you can use both mele and ranged, if you want to go the range route, Penetraiting Shot is the one you have to build around, but it is a hard skill to master as the aoe is in a straight line, not a bubble like everything else is.

Finaly it aint any shame in seeking help, not all of us understands synergy skill games, i dont so i find guides from ppl who do understand them.

3

The lack of actual free choice in skills is a massive letdown for me as well and the main flaw of the game by far IMO.

8 Likes
4

I have had less of a hard time with the Rogue than the Druid for sure because I have (I guess) selected the right skill combos instinctively, plus I can roll away twice and use twice Caltrops I am a lot harder to touch.

As everybody has already mentioned, the Druid has less escape skills which means you are stuck when bosses throws at you 5+ high health mobs and they are constantly shooting 5+ projectiles with a damage of 2 hits death.

I get that the game needs to be difficult, I like to play hard games after all, but I am struggling with D4 more than ever I did with any From Software games, because I feel no matter how terrible my equipment or build is in those games, if I play well I can always overcome any challenge, but in D4 I feel like because of various cooldowns and damage being so low, limited by a level cap thing that keeps being higher than you, it is mathematically impossible to win unless you change your build.

5

Creating a build that focuses on synergy is a requirement in D4 that is correct. D4 is easier than D3 was on launch by a lot tho, and I would say it’s also easier than D2. Yes to some extent the original D3 had static levels but you were hitting a gigantic roadblock after hell difficulty no matter what.

Same in D2, you can stick around for a long time in Normal and not progress but eventually if you want to do Hell you’re going to need to optimise. You are wrong about something though, generally speaking you DO get more powerful over time within the same difficulty and most builds can with the paragon board, legendaris and glyphs dominate WT4 at its base difficulty.

I have a build based on Hota, but Lunging Strike I have 1 point in only for generating Fury. I’m lvl82, lunging strike hits with 1 point and no optimisation are as high as 150,000 damage, meaning it can kill monsters in 1-2 hits. My main ability Hota can kill bosses in 1-2 hits, dealing regularly 1-2million damage and sometimes as high as 5million.

Any build I make with my gear and paragon/glyphs will dominate WT4 at base difficulty, but you MUST understand legendaries/aspects and basic synergies.

6

I can’t really speak about the topic of the skill trees (since I usually never do that in games because it always ends up in toxic people attacking me), but I want to mention that a game doesn’t have to stay that way, especially in modern gaming era where most games receive patch updates regularly to improve the experience (in most cases).

For example, take Warhammer Vermintide 2. A small game from the Studio Fatshark.
Was bad on release, became MASSIVELY better over time. Or look at No Man Sky, also a good example. Also the MMORPGs FF14 with a Realm Reborn and Elder Scrolls Online with Tamriel Unlimited.

I am not saying Blizzard will instantly fix the game (we know the companies reputation over the last few years), but there is a chance it will get better over time.

7

I remember playing D3 at launch, but I remember finishing it really easily, and that is the issue. I am not even talking that endgame is the problem, I get it, endgame has to be tough because it is the ultimate challenge, but the problem I am having is that I cannot even get out of the first area of the game and complete the story, even after switching to Tier 1, because I am level 40+ and almost every miniboss 2 shot kills me, and that never happened during levels 1 to 30. (or any other Diablo game for that matter)

When I started with my werewolf I felt indestructible, up to level 20 I teleported all over the place, attacked multiple enemies at once, recharged and repeated, I felt like I was playing a beat’em up arcade game, that’s how much fun I was having, but then as I kept leveling, even small groups of 3-4 mobs begun slowing me down, further and further to the point that when I see a large group I am guaranteed to die almost always from just a few hits and the once powerful healing ability is now useless.

But you say that the difficulty increase is incorrect, but that is what I am experiencing, weather it is intended or not, the world is always 2 levels higher than me, so they ARE becoming stronger, dealing more damage each time I level up, my health pool is not growing fast enough maybe and my healing abilities are staying too low, maybe my equipment did not catch up to them, I do not know but thing is, I feel like where before 1 or 2 swings of my secondary skill could take any regular mob, now I am lucky if I damage 5% or 10% of their health.

I loved how Synergy worked in D2 because it was clear and easy to understand (even though it did not have it until much later in its development), it literally spelled it out for you, so I knew that if I am learning “that” skill, it will be more beneficial if I learn that “other” skill too. in D4 I feel like the game is telling you “you can go crazy, this skill can work really well with that” but that is not what I am experiencing, I feel like if I do not do EXACTLY how the game was designed, I will have a bad time.

8

I feel the same way.

2 Likes
9

The issue with the druid is that best synergies are drop only, plus it is almost mandatory to use some of the Druid only uniques, often even 2 or 3.

Even though it is the most gear dependant class, I still think it is the most interesting one with the most variety. I played druid than rerolled to barb, created hota barb, but being invincible is getting boring really fast so I returned to druid, and though I got stomped couple of times I still enjoy it way more than barb, even though armor/visuals like Barbarian is my favourite.

10

I also hit a wall at about 39/40 so I just made a new character and went again.

My first character was the sorcerer, I just couldn’t get any decent drops to get me past Mothers Judgement, a boss that I stomped with my second character.

My second character is a druid Pulverise build but with the lightning storm ultimate and a couple of things that make bear skills also earth skills so Natures Fury Passive works and I also have something that fires off a nature skill sometimes when attacking with bear skills, it all works really well together. Honestly I would take some theory crafting time and see what you can come up with, there are a lot of synergies out there. The more outside the box you can think the better builds you can come up with.

Keep going as it won’t be long before something will happen (drops or incredible idea) that changes your entire playthrough from good to “hey I think i’m on to something here”.

GL HF

2 Likes
11

I think what you explain is razonable , what seems wrong to me is that in the end everyone ends up having to copy and paste the same build to progress, it is not that it is different from the otherDiablo versions than in the end game It was that, getting to copy the fashionable build, but they did promise that it would be different and free to build a viable character . however that can be balanced in the future if the devs intend to do so.

2 Likes
12

Just as there are Meta builds there will be builds that do a hit a brick wall … I think however there are still a large variety of viable builds (e.g I’ve not seen one Ice shards Sorc build the same on any of the main 3rd party websites) - but you will require more item farming, equipment upgrading, Gems and Potions to boost your power curve to be ahead of the scaling.

13

Druid is just weak low level, everyone has been saying it and it was even a meme during the beta. Druid also happens to be extremely good at high level which is why Blizzard likely didn’t change anything.

You need to not play what you want, you need to play what the game gives you. The game gives you legendaries and items and you need to be able to change course and say “with these items I am better playing this way”.

This is why game companies are afraid to give players choice, because if you give players the option of making a wrong decision, it will make the experience worse for them, but the freedom of that choice is a valuable experience for many in gaming. You’re asking for the freedom of choice but you also want the safety of a tailored experience where a path is set infront of you.

You can’t have both. Of course it could be better, Necromancer has it easy all the way up, but Necromancer is weaker at max level while Druids are gods… Be more agile in your approach to gaming, if you want to play a specific build then you also have to figure out how it’s going to work, how you’re going to make it perform.

Almost everything works at WT4 level, with the right approach/items, its only at high nightmare keys that things drop off.

14

Yeah - and pushing NM keys is more of an longer term endgame activity when compared to leveling to 100.

15

This is actually quite valid criticism. I usually copy top builds but I tried just making something a bit fun but it just didn’t work. In a way it is a bit annoying but I suppose it encourages engagement with the third party community.

16

I had opposite experience.

I was doing all sidequests before moving to next act of main story and because of that - very quickly reached lvl 50 with my rogue (at the end of act 2 more or less).
From that moment game changed into boring clicker, because my rogue become so overpowered, that all mobs and bosses was just wiped without using much healthpotions.
Additionaly I wasted tens of hours on traveling without horse, because instead of character progress - it’s locked to certain point of story, without any sensible reason.
Also I was unable to switch on world difficulty 3 and due to that lost around 10 levels of exp on killing mobs. Because some g e n i u s decided to lock world level under finished campaign + completely random dungeon, instead of character level or gear level.

So after forcing myself to finish rest of the campaign with destroyed gameplay challenge I dunno if I want to continue to play this game anymore. Got completely bored out.

I guess all competent gamedesigners left the company already, because progression flow design like that is just idiotic.

17

WT2 was easy but WT3 is quite tough so sticking to lvl 50 for a bit longer to get some good gear is not bad at all really

18

Brief… Wall of text
:eyes::laughing::clown_face:

1 Like
19

It is only in the start T3 is hard, as soon as yellow gear in T3 drops, equip it even if it dont have attributes you value, if you see green power scale number you equip it.

Then you get on equal footing for T3 and can start farming.

1 Like
20

Finally a post of a critique of the game that I agree with
The skill tree and paragon tables are too large, so the builds are “armored”. It’s a deception to think that since there are many skill points, huge trees, etc. it’s more flexible… it’s the other way contrary. Because they are difficult to balance, plus the decision to introduce a PVP makes it even more difficult.
It could also be said on diablo III it was like this, but it was only for high torments and as you wrote, it was remedied with the equipment