The rogue class was made around this kind of cards just like mage was made around ice block effects. Nerfing this card would invalidate plenty of rogue’s mini-combos and larger ones, maybe it could cost 1 or reduce the cost only by 2 mana but still I wouldn’t want another careless nerf without a proper rework of the class (and by that I mean adjusting certain cards)
I made this post because I am afraid preparation might be nerfed in the next round of nerfs even if it did nothing wrong there (like hex got nerfed back when shaman was rubbish tier, I know the imbeciles wanted it for even shaman though ) as rogue doesn’t seem powerful enough to deserve a nerf now, though again I am very concerned with the fate of prep
I feel like now that mage and warlock and actually rogue lost some of their tools to the hall of fame, as well as many other classic cards being Hall of Famed or nerfed the game i pretty hard for certain classes, having to either rely on the classic set cause they get trash with the new expansions or on the new expansions, maybe maybe there’s something to make them op this time around
I agree. Preparation is such a good card not only due to its power level but from class identity and fantasy perspective. I would rather nerf something like Raiding Party to cost 4 instead of 3. I’ve also heard a good suggestion of nerfing Dread Corsair to cost at least 1 mana no matter what the Attack of a weapon is. Not a direct nerf to Rogue but nerfing a neutral card used mostly by Rogue currently.
If they want to nerf Preparation I also think they should in return BUFF some Rogue spells that are just too expensive to play without Preparation. Some cards’ mana costs are even balanced around Preparation without a doubt. Sprint and Necrium Vial come first to my mind. But I don’t think they’re willing to buff a card, let alone multiple cards of a single class, for the first time ever since beta.
Besides I don’t like the idea of nerfing Classic cards specifically because they, at least they’re supposed to, stick around. Nerfing/HoF:ing good Classic cards hurts F2P players the most because they have to grind even more for better non-Classic/Basic cards that rotate out eventually.
Problem with Prep is it fits in all decks. Even at 2 mana reduction, it will still see play in Miracle; debatable on Aggro. But that’s fine. Aggros got SI, Evisca, Backstab and Sap to steal Tempo, it wont hit them hard. Something has to be done however. Rogue has too much board control, too much burst. It’s not coincidental they’ve been Tier 1 - hardly 2 - since forever. Rogues will always snik in Meta cause their Classic Set is powerful, which doesnt feel right. Classic cards should be there for basic synergies or techs, not be auto included. Sap is another lowkey problematic card. Noone talks about Sap, but this card alone carries games in Midrange Metas.
The Problem is not Preparation.
the problem is how ridiculously it works with Raiding Party.
Raiding Party is the card that needs to be over viewed.
In addition, Raiding party is one of the main reasons why Aggressive Kingsbane Rogue exists as a Tier 1 deck in Wild meta.
Personally I think it should have been moved into the Hall of Fame, as it falls into the category of: “I think it’s fine, but 5 years is enough”.
I’ve got no problem with it being in wild and I typically play more wild, so it’s not like I want to avoid it, just like standard to change as that’s the point of the mode.
This card is quite balanced! All sets of rogue for 5 years were made in such a way that they always beat the presence of prep. If you touch it now it can hurt a lot of decks in the same wild mode! Many combinations will become impossible and this can greatly affect the rogue class as in standard mode and in the wild! Now the problem solely creates a Rogue with a pick and the whole synergy of the deck is based solely around that weapon! As with the quest you have to beat in the essence of the problem!
I feel like there are multiple problems now with both standard and wild. Wild has those op cards that weren’t fixed in time, additionally new cards are added every expansion, be it AoE ressurect cards I mean tools in general… and at some point it will be just a series of S tier cards in a deck and then a 3 cards win condition vs aggro decks with the neatest synergies possible.
Standard instead has the problem I’ve been talking about, some classes have trash classic cards (and now less classic cards) and rely on new cards every expansion and other classes have amazing classic cards and bully everyone. They can’t just throw every good classic card into Hall Of Fame and they can’t just ignore the problem as it is right now. I’d really like either a rework to the system (and here I’d be open to all kinds of suggestions, like Kibler said they could have sets that rotate to be standard (or even classic) like it is now in arena) or they could adjust the classic and basic sets all at once and let them open to nerfs and buffs, I don’t know why those have to be such taboo for blizz
Nerfing prep, or even worse putting it into the hall of fame is likely to cripple rogues in standard. Not only does it ruin their main draw engine, which is sprint (remember myra’s isn’t around forever, neither is raiding party), but it also makes many other spells they have (much) less mana efficient too, one of which being vanish, meaning control or stalling oriented archetypes would be affected as well.
If they nerfed prep, they’d also need to at least make sprint less mana intensive, probably also assassinate and vanish alongside other higher cost spells…
But let’s not kid ourselves, the elephant in the room is raiding party, not prep. Being able to turn prep + raid into “0 mana draw waggle-pick, at least one 0 mana taunt on turn 4, plus something else” is what’s the current problem, and nobody needs to nerf/HoF prep to solve it.
I specified that I’m afraid for prep as it is a very powerful card, like Fiery War Axe was… I said it’s not the problem but it most likely is under their radar as it’s been for the last one and a half years
Because the nerf everyone thinks about is making it reduce the cost of a card by 2, which is actually reasonable, but (re)moving it forever to hall of fame would incapacitate rogue for real
Nerfing prep to a cost-reduction of 2 mana doesn’t kill the card if some of the other rogue cards get adjusted in cost as well, most importantly sprint, and perhaps assassinate and vanish. Many of the rogue cards are only useable because prep exists, and having to run prep in decks also means there is a higher opportunity cost involved as well, because deck slots are also valuable. It’s literally like sacrificing 2 deck slots to make some cards playable. Just try running an aggressive rogue deck without prep, suddenly you can’t even afford your own draw engine anymore, because either the draws come in way too late, or you can’t maintain the pressure on your opponent anymore because removal/draw/eviscerate + SI7-Agent is nigh impossible during early turns.
I mean, sure, we can discuss the necessity of prep up and down all day if you want, and I’m sure we’ll agree that it’s perhaps not so great that prep has to be a staple card in basically every rogue deck out there, but as long as sprint costs 7 mana I simply can’t exclude prep from my decklists, assuming I don’t run raiding party that is.
7 mana is virtually impossible to afford in an archetype that depends on being able to use several “low value cards” in quick succession. By the time you can drop a non-discounted sprint you’ve already run out of gas unless you have additional draw like for example elven minstrels used to be, or in the current meta lackeys which can fuel combos. And even with all the “lackey fuel” and raiding party, I’ve seen rogues pop a myra’s in this meta every now and then.
You can’t look at a card like sprint in a vacuum and judge it solely on a “cards drawn to manacost ratio” as far as I’m concerned. Rogue’s entire combo mechanic hinges on being able to unload cheap cards quickly, and ruining the draw engine is going to consequentially ruin what’s basically “the rogue identity”.
Eer, no. It’s bad. There’s never a time when paying 7 mana to draw four cards feels good. Especially if you can’t play anything else on the same turn. It’s terrible compared to other card draws in the game currently. Like Raiding Party, which seems to be the card people have a problem with these days when it comes to Rogue class.
Of course I agree that Preparation does limit design space when it comes to designing strong spells for Rogue. There’s no denying that. But at the same time I think it’s such a good, iconic and flavorful card that I personally don’t want it to be touched. Unless, again, Blizzard is willing to compensate for it by buffing certain high cost Rogue spells by reducing their mana costs. But, like you said, the chances for that happening are practically zero.
“Fair” in hearthstone means it’ll only see play in specific archetypes at specific times, meaning it wont see play all the time.
So “fair” does indeed = bad most of the time.
I just don’t think aggro or tempo decks should get OP card draw as well. I think we’re kind of arguing 2 different points here. I have no problem with prep + sprint being a thing (sprint is still bad in tempo rogue, even with prep). I just don’t want prep to be in standard forever, I don’t want to see it nerfed and I don’t want sprint to cost 6.
How do I start
you know good card draw is not the problem do you?
I suppose you haven’t tried any aggro rogue deck, right?
The decks usually struggles the most with cards draw, it had minstrel and sprint last expansion, would run shadowstep to double the minstrel combo in certain decks, or would run worse cards (shiv) (for auctioneer) or as you call them “fair cards” though in this situation they were worse than trash, the deck would have rather played 28 cards than running shiv, but they kinda had to.
The “problem” now is that you can get your 1 drop dagger on 2 prep raiding on 3 +increasingly powerful 4/4 or at least 6/6 Edwin or the 3 mana fireplume phoenix, waggle pick +free 3/3 taunt into Greenskin who’s now a a 5 mana 5/4 that equips you an Arcanite Reaper, there are too many strong synergies and getting prep raiding plus a 3 drop is a niche highroll but there really are better nerfs than prep, rising the cost of raiding to 4? that sound like making a “fair” card even more since it’s specific cards draw which is better than just card draw…
the problem here is that prep is already under the radar and there will be no nerfs but it will sure be hall of famed soon enough because of this.
And how is hall of fame a good thing?
It’s like that illustration with a man in a pit with a wooden ladder and the man is cold so he lights a fire using stairs from the ladder
Makes no sense whatsoever. You can’t play aggro/tempo without strong card draw because you’ll just run out of resources. Rogues in the current meta already tend to loose matches when they don’t get their prep + raid off early enough. Ruining prep + sprint means you’d consequentially ruin rogue as a tempo archetype unless they get other draw engines which would then also need to be archetype enabling and therefore “supposedly over performing”.
Let’s remind ourselves real quick that Zoo-Lock decks only exist because warlock has inherent draw by way of hero power. Now try playing Zoo without life tap and tell me how many games you can win. See the problem?
So what is your point then? Changing standard card pool for the sake of changing it, even though you play mostly wild by your own admission… Nothing’s gonna change for you anyway, let’s get that right, shall we?
So what’s the merit of putting prep in the HoF? How does it make the game better? And I don’t take “change for change’s sake” for an answer.
You know what rogue decks these days would do if Myra’s didn’t exist? I’ll go out on a limb here and say they’d run at least one sprint in their decks to have at least 3 draws in their decks with raiding party, and it turns out that additional draw Myra’s provides is already a necessity in higher ranks.
But hey, let’s say blizzard has a bad day and HoFs prep… Now what? It’s either new and powerful draw engine, or “instant tier 5” for nearly all standard rogue decks. How is that supposed to be a good thing for anybody? How does removing one class from competition make the game better?
…because then you can add new cards that couldn’t be printed due to them + prep being too OP in standard?
Yes I want aggro/tempo decks to run out of resources. I’m not a fan of being able to spam all your cards and then getting a tempo refill. Are you guys sad that divine favour is gone? I hate when bad aggro players get away with it because they happen to draw the right cards at the right time.
Tapping costs life and is bad tempo. It’s been the most broken HP forever but there is at least a down side.
I think cards being Hall of Famed over nerfed is a good thing, as I’d rather play with the full version in wild, that a watered down copy in standard.
Said I play more Wild, not all Wild. I prefer wild as it has more variety long term, but I like standard because of the huge shifts in the meta.
But hey, Hall of Fame season is gone, so it’s either another year of the same old or they “remove” prep from the game, like warsong commander or Mana Wyrm.
At this point in time the only op card to prep is raiding party, and that card is only powerful to prep because of what it draws, and not because of how much it draws. Basically nobody runs unidentified contract, and even assassinate at 5 mana isn’t used often either, especially not with prep.
And what happens when prep gets moved to wild as soon as new and powerful spells get printed that would be op with prep? You’re not really solving all that much when it means you’ll create another problem somewhere else.
And this already happens in spite of prep, raiding, and myra’s unstable element. As powerful as wagglepick + corsair on turn 4 is, you’re still using two cards to draw 3. It’s not like rogues suddenly have a full hand. If the opponent can handle the turn 4 tempo swing, the rogue is already on the brink of resource starvation, and if the next card draw doesn’t come quick enough it’s game over. Same thing with Myra’s when it mills your most important cards, for that matter.
It’s really not as though rogues have like infinite resources available to them. Neither does any other aggro-deck, they all run out of steam if they can’t win fast enough, and that’s still true in this day and age.
Good for you, what about the people who don’t yet have the cardpool to play in wild, or simply aren’t interested in wild, or are playing on a budget of sorts, meaning they need to disenchant quite a few cards after every rotation?
How would nerfing it instead solve that problem? Hall of Faming actually gives more dust if you only own 2 copies, which if you’re on a budget I presume you are.
![:neutral_face:](https://d30yn6ctwpaot1.cloudfront.net/en/hearthstone/images/emoji/twitter/neutral_face.png?v=6" ":neutral_face:")
) as rogue doesn’t seem powerful enough to deserve a nerf now, though again I am very concerned with the fate of prep