A plea for dealing with leavers. Losing interest in the game

General Discussion
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What of it? I don’t know them in real life, and I never will, so why should I care for them on a personal level? I care for them as “fellow human beings”, and treat them with respect. But I don’t see why I would care for them on a personal level, and how they feel in real life. I’m not their friend, and I will never know them on a personal level anyways, so yes, it is nice. It seemed like you were being sarcastic, but if that’s the case, what is wrong with me seeing them in this way?

Factually incorrect.

This is a completely different scenario, and would only be relevant if the team I have in ranked is a consistent group of the same people. In a situation where you get queued up along with 5 randoms you never played with before, and most of them you probably won’t be seeing again, your point wouldn’t make sense whatsoever.

And it’s fine if not everyone is going to take my criticism to heart. But that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be saying it anyways. And again, it really really depends on HOW you give them the criticism. Like tone of voice, choice of words, how nitpicky you choose to be, etc etc. And ALMOST nobody I ever criticized took offence. If they did, then atleast they kept it to themselves. The very very few that actually snapped back at me, did so by telling me to “shut the f*** up, re***d!” and ended up getting reported by me and the rest of my team for toxic behavior. As they all understood I was doing what I considered to be “in the best interest for the team”. Which is what I do. Just because a dude like this can’t handle me saying it, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t say it, because some people like him can’t handle having their ego challenged. Like I said, ego and pride is a pointless and valueless thing for the team, so too bad for him, really. Let him be upset. The rest of us can be mature instead.

I beg the differ. I think you have a very unflattering image of what I’m ACTUALLY like when I give criticism. Like I’ve stated multiple times, criticism is not necessarily bad. Just because some people give criticism in a very toxic way, doesn’t mean I also do so. And I’ve made it abundantly clear that my criticism is very respectful and factual, not berating or toxic in any way. Unless you have proof of me doing otherwise, you have no reason to doubt that I’m telling the truth, as I’ve been very consistent in my views and examples given of what I would actually say.

Already told you. For the increased chance of winning the game. There is nothing I’m doing that is toxic, unless you actually think ALL criticism is toxic and bad. Which would be an incorrect assessment of what criticism is. I’m simply NOT toxic. No matter what you believe.

What are you basing this on? I’ve got tons of compassion for my family and friends. If someone in-game told me they had a rough day in real life, I’d just say: “I’m sorry to hear that man, hope you’ll feel better soon”, he’d say: “Thanks dude, I hope so aswell” and we would be done. I have compassion to him on a level as “fellow human beings”, but not as I would with family or friends, who are actually important people to me, and that I care and love for. I don’t love this random person I will spend time with for up to 10-20 mins. And believing I should would just be ridiculous.

What does this even mean? deflect what exactly? And what narrative? did you misread one of your posts as one of mine or something? I’m being as transparent as glass here. And I’m as open as a book. I’m not trying to spin anything, push an agenda, push a narrative, or anything of the sort. You are getting this information from not being able to understand that I ACTUALLY mean everything I’m saying. Maybe it’s hard to comprehend that I’m simply being honest, but I am. I don’t see why I shouldn’t just be honest. My “attitude” as you call it, is simply to bring out the best in the team as a whole. And do whatever I can to make sure we are, ever so slightly, closer to victory. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don’t have any double standards or anything like this either, I actually want them to criticize me aswell whenever/if I do something bad. It would help me to stay focused aswell. There is no hard feelings.

What exactly would be “proof” of this in your eyes? I can tell you by experience that I’ve had alot of situations where this has helped out. Whether you believe me or not is not something that is easy to “prove” in that sense. I see the results, and therefore I keep doing it. The amount of people who have a problem with my criticisms is incredibly small. And the payoff is a better, more wholesome experience where morale is high, we can have fun, and we all learn from our mistakes. If that’s not a net-positive in your eyes, then I don’t know what is…

Factually incorrect. Name ONE thing I’m doing that is toxic…

Winning is the ultimate goal in ranked. Just because it isn’t for you, doesn’t mean your zen-thinking of not letting anything tilt you to be more correct. It might work for you, and if it does, then keep doing you man, it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is that you think my behavior is toxic, simply for not having the same philosophy as you do. But honestly, there are tons more people who are like me, and prefer to address issues in ranked, and play it super seriously. Your “super serious” is very different from my “super serious”, but more people would be aligned with my version compared to yours. Your version of super serious seems like a more casual style than mine, and there is nothing wrong with that, I’m not saying that makes me better or something like this, and I have to make that very very clear for you, as that’s probably how you would take it, but I play as if I have a gun to my head. That’s how I prefer to play ranked. I HAVE TO win. That’s my mentality. I’m fully aware that I’m not going to win always and all the time, but that’s still the way I play ranked. Like it actually matters. Your style, is more casual, as you focus more on your own development, and focus on having a good time. Win or lose is not important for you. You just “go again”. For me, it matters. And it’s the same for many others aswell. And that’s just fine. So me criticizing others for not playing at their absolute best, their highest level of focus, and have the ultimate goal of winning, is something I’m simply going to continue doing, and in the same process, avoid stepping on any toes or being toxic. If they can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If they can’t handle people taking ranked seriously, then don’t play ranked. It’s as simple as that, and nothing bad or toxic about this at all. And whether you find it pathetic or not, quite frankly says more about you and your matureity, than it does mine. I’m still being very very respectful to them.

blah blah blah, huh? So this seems to confirm that you are not taking me seriously, even though I’m being very open, honest and transparent with you. It’s not like I don’t care about people AT ALL. I’m simply saying I don’t care about them on a personal level. If I did, that would be rather ridiculous. As I don’t really know them, and I never will. Doesn’t mean I can’t wish them all things well in their lives, as we part ways never to see eachother again after 10-20 mins.

Again, you would have to define what would be “hard evidence” for you. I see the results in my matches. Not sure why you would want any more evidence than this… It sounds like you’re grasping at straws because you can’t wrap your head around what I’m saying.

Just, lol. I have compassion, and I’m not toxic. I have no idea why you think otherwise. I’ve been crystal clear and completely honest this whole time. How any of what I’ve said would lead you to believe this is beyond me.

223

No. That is why you tell your Rein things like “bubble in 2” and “I dont have bubble”. Never said the Rein was in the right, just an idea of how you could have worked round it. Main tank playing very aggressively… You either play very aggressively too or get mad about it. Going with the flow is more of an interesting challenge. 66% win rate playing Rein aggressively, it can work.

Trolling? never said that. I said it is toxic. Because it is.

Yes I am trolling because I prefer to not be toxic. I prefer to focus on self improvement. The cheek of me to not criticise others.

224

This was a tough read. 371 words in one paragraph, the first 7 was enough for your point.

And the rest just explains why you are tilted, toxic and complain about others actions in ranked.

You have been crystal clear and honest. Well done. Just because you are trying to be honest doesn’t suddenly make it not toxic behaviour. And just because a team once thought you were right, basically that is a tale of you being toxic and the rest of your team ganging up on one player, that player then snapped and said things he shouldn’t have. Sounds like basic school yard bullying.

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Not tilted, and not toxic. How do you even reach that conclusion after reading everything I wrote? What exactly am I doing that is “toxic” in your eyes? And IF you say that it’s me criticizing, then that means you think ALL criticism is bad. Straight up. Which is SUPER wrong, and would mean you have no idea what you are talking about.

Once, lmao. Where did you get “once” from?

So at this point, you actually think that we ganged up on him and bullied him. lmao, there is nothing that can get through to you. You are impervious to facts and logic, apparently. Pretty sad for someone so focused on improving and bettering himself, when you are willing to stand up for someone that feels justified in using bad language as soon as his ego is being tossed to the side for being a useless attribute. The fact that you choose to side with someone who is that immature, shows pretty clearly where your own level of maturity is at. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. Go and do whatever you want, I’m happy for you that you have found a style that fits you. Too bad you believe you are correct when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Your true colors is showing through your lack of understanding.

226

You gave one example, so once.

No you cannot convince me your approach is anything but toxic. Just because you got positive feedback a couple of times, doesn’t make it right.

He over reacted, and reporting was fine. But then again but then again it summed up my point that you are not leading effectively. He was clearly one of the many that would be somewhere between irritated and p!ssed off with your “criticism”.

Then toxic players tend not to realise what they are doing, which is why when they get account actions they swear blind they’ve done nothing wrong.

Any ways. You’ve proved my point. Zero thought, compassion and toxic.

You are going back on mute, because that is the best course of action to deal with toxic players.

End of thread (just to keep Wolfie happy)

227

I actually gave a few. But you can focus on the one if you want. Still doesn’t make it “once”, all in all though. I thought you would atleast recognize that, but I guess not.

Well, it certainly doesn’t make it wrong and toxic either. No idea why you would think it would be wrong and toxic. Makes no sense.

Right, and I never claimed to be a good leader. All I’ve claimed is that I have a fair amount of knowledge of how the game works, and if nobody else wants to take the leader position, then I will. I’m perfectly fine with not being the leader. But having a leader is better than not having one. I simply step up to the plate if nobody else are willing.

Because he couldn’t handle criticism with his feeble ego. Too bad for him, really. If he wants to be annoyed and mad at me, that’s fine. I don’t care if he is or not.

Clearly I’m not toxic then, as I’ve never had any actions towards my account ever. It’s almost as if I’m behaving respectfully and not being toxic, or breaking any guidelines. Imagine that.

Lol. You think your point has been proven? And you think I have no compassion and that I’m toxic? that’s… cute, really. You clearly failed to understand my posts if you think you are correct in this assessment. You’ve clearly not been listening then. What am I doing that is lacking in compassion? What am I doing that is toxic? And what zero thought? Where are you getting all this from? what is this extra info you clearly think you are extracting from what I’m writing?

You can mute me if it makes you feel better about yourself. Still doesn’t mean you are correct in any way though. The fact that you think I’m being toxic just proves that you don’t know what being toxic means. I’m not taking offence to it, as you obviously don’t know what you are saying. It’s quite fascinating that you believe so though. Based on absolutely nothing.
But have a good day, sorry to burst your bubble.

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“Because he couldn’t handle criticism with his feeble ego. Too bad for him”

Toxic.

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How is it toxic? He couldn’t handle criticism as it hurted his ego. And he then proceeded to swearing, and in fact, being toxic himself. If he can’t handle criticism because his ego gets shattered, then yes, his ego IS feeble. I’m just calling it as it is. I don’t see why I should call it something else, when that’s what it is. Nothing toxic about that, and if you think it is, you don’t know what toxicity means.

230

Point proven.

“Then toxic players tend not to realise what they are doing… they swear blind they’ve done nothing wrong.”

Good luck.

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How so? are you trying to say that I should respect his ego, and allow him to do bad stuff ingame if he wants to? even if this affects his teammates?

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The comment above was clear enough.

But in short yes. Show others a little respect. Don’t be toxic. Not hard.

“Bad” is just your opinion. He might have thought it was good play. Captain Hindsight then came in all complainy. Quite rightly annoyed him.

I ended this conversation a few posts ago. But you need the last word, so ok. Just don’t be toxic.

233

I see, so I can understand now why you disagree. Clearly you think ego and pride is something that belongs in a team-game. Odd. I do however show respect though, as I’m not attacking him just for criticizing him, but seeing as you now said that you think criticism is bad in itself, then that explains a whole lot.

I know it’s not hard. Which is exactly why I’m not toxic. I’m just being realistic. Shame you can’t tell the difference.

If he thinks making a bad decision is “good play”, then it’s about time someone teaches him that he is wrong, and explain to him exactly WHY it’s wrong. If he has an interest in improving, he’d be willing to listen without resorting to childish behavior.

That’s rich, coming from you:)

No problem, dude. I’m not. Never was.
Have a nice day. Until we meet again.

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Ego and pride are human nature and perfectly at home in a team environment. That is why you treat each person differently. Hence the football management analogy that you didn’t seem to get. A bad leader will go in and treat everyone with the same lack of respect. A good leader will learn what works with each person and adjust accordingly.

So if you have a team of completely new people to you. Probably a bit toxic to go around criticising without knowing if that kind of “advise” is welcome or not.

Basics of good man management.

Enjoy your toxic games!

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These attributes doesn’t make an impact on whether we win or lose, so the way I see it, you leave your ego and pride in the main menu when you get a group of randoms, and then you can pat yourself on your own back as much as you want after the game is over. Ego and pride is not a deciding factor to win, so it’s not valuable, and not necessary. In fact, it works against team morale, and promotes individualism. There is no “i” in “team”.

Ohh, I got it alright. And it works if you have a premade team with people you’ve played with before. So if you play in a group of 6, and it’s you with 5 friends, then absolutely, it works. However, when you play with randoms, you don’t have time to get to know 5 people when the match is ongoing. That’s why you stick purely to tactics, shotcalling, and communication. There is simply no time to get to know people on a level where you can customize to each person’s personalities. So just stick to the hard facts. You don’t need to know each person deeply to make an efficient play.

This is indeed a bad leader. That’s why I’m always treating everyone with respect, but not to the point of a football manager as you like to refer to, as this would be next to impossible to achieve in the short time you spend with the random players. On a basic level, I still treat them all with respect.

Only if you have time enough to get to know everyone well, which you can’t do in 10-20 mins. That’s why a good leader in a game of randoms, only call out concise and clear info, that ALL players can relate to, whether you know them personally or not. Keep it simple, and don’t overcomplicate things.

Only if you think feedback and criticism is inherently bad. Which it seems like you are saying. Sadly, this is not correct, and the faster you learn that, the easier it’s going to be for you to improve yourself aswell, which it seems like you ARE interested in.

Nobody enjoys toxic games, but atleast I don’t contribute to the toxicity. Enjoy your games aswell.

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“That’s why you stick purely to tactics, shotcalling, and communication.” exactly.

Not your toxic criticism.

Good luck.

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Well, this just shows that you think ALL criticism is bad. I’m sorry you aren’t able to see the real value of criticism, as it’s a good thing. It’s not toxic at all.

Good luck to you too.

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Did they ask for your feedback, or did you give it unsolicited?

The later is toxic behaviour.

If someone asks for your feedback and you are critical, then is all good.

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You think a prideful person would ask for someone else’s feedback? Ofcourse they wont, they have too much pride to do so. I’m giving feedback, and they can choose to ignore it, or take it to heart. I can’t force them to accept it, but me telling them feedback is not toxic just because they dind’t ask for feedback. That’s not how criticism works. And if you think so, then go read up on it a bit, as you are very wrong if you think that’s how it works.

If someone asks for feedback, it just means they are VERY open to improvement, and shows that they have a genuine interest in getting better. Doesn’t mean all other forms of feedback and criticism is toxic. Go read up on it.

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They didn’t ask… So it is toxic, unsolicited criticism.

nice.

If they don’t ask, they don’t want to hear it. So keep it to yourself.

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They don’t ask, because they have too much pride to see that they are making mistakes. So I will give them my constructive, respectful criticism, to do what is best for the TEAM. If they want to think ONLY about themselves, they are the toxic ones. It’s a team game after all.
If they don’t want my advice/criticism/feedback, then they are free to ignore it. It’s not like I keep hammering them with the same info until they acknowledge me. I say it once, and if they take it to heart, good. If they don’t, too bad. But simply pointing out flaws in a respectful way is NOT toxic. If you think it is, you don’t understand what being toxic is. Simple as that.

Again, they won’t ask. They have too much pride to ask. They can ignore me if they feel like it, but I’m not going to keep it to myself. Nothing toxic about giving them advice/criticism/feedback in itself.