Ranking System if BROKEN: Stop judging player by the bad performance of the other team members

The ranking system is fundamentally broken because a player is judged mostly via the outcome of the performance of other team members (win or loss condition), and not by the solo performance of said player.

It creates negative toxicity because even when people try their best, they care to play well, and perform well, they are still being punished by incompetence of other team members.

It’s just absurd insanity to try to meaningfully compete in such a toxic, broken system.

This is nothing more than an tilted rant, falsely blaming Blizzard for you losing games.

If you think you are not one of these team members you describe (you are the one being toxic btw…), prove it. Show us your games.

I’m gonna be honest dude, the majority of players don’t. At least in the ranks I play in, people stopped caring a long time ago. Funnily enough, it was around the time blizzard stopped caring too which is a nice coincidence.

Play to play, not for rank. You won’t have a better experience if you climb.

If I wanted to play just to play, then I wouldn’t touch comp at all :slight_smile:

Competitive exist for a specific goal, and that goal is to progress in the ranking system, but you can’t do that properly because the system is screwed up. They should take their heads out of their coffee mugs and implement a different ranking system which is based on personal performance. ELO system for a team based game is stupid, and tbh idk why they went with it in the first place, but then maybe it has something to do with what was going on internally in the company, and all the crap Kotick caused. You can develop game properly if you are being sabotaged by your own CEO, LOL

Yes. But you need to be wiling to improve and not just toxically blame your team mates while rolling out with Junkrat and having little impact.

Your posts have shown little to no willingness to review what you do in a game.

Let people help you.

if you’re playing for rank then you will always be disappointed. the game doesn’t get better with rank.

No one says it does, but then higher rank means more competent players, so you might be factually incorrect :man_shrugging:

The point is that competitive exists to play for rank, and in its current state the ranking system is broken, and playing for rank is pointless, because you’re getting punished for other people bad skill.

They need to redevelop the ranking system.

They don’t.

You need to get better at playing the game. We all do.

Maybe don’t be a Junk OTP… Try Echo, they will work better in your games if you can get to grips with them.

youre wrong. more competent players is a joke at best. the account I am posting from is low diamond on dps, half the players i see down there would dominate half the players i see in masters.
the unfortunate truth is grandfathered ranks, boosted accounts and throwers never went away.

see now this is objectively wrong.
the ranking system isnt inherently poor, what you are experiencing is a community issue.

look dude, i think the development of a new game at the cost of the current one is a massive joke but the ranking system is not at fault.

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I completely agree, they could easily fix this by making us gain/lose more based on our stats each game.
But I doubt these complete monkey devs are going to do anything with the game anymore

That would be counter productive. You could in theory climb by never winning a game…

And if your stats are that good, you’ll most likely be winning most games anyways.

Community has nothing to do with the fact that the ranking system is fundamentally broken because it judges player using mostly other people performance. It causes only grief and toxicity because people are being effectively punished for other people bad performance.

You can play well, I mean actually well, and you can still lose a game because of your team screw up’s. Instead of being rewarded for doing well, you are being punished for what your teammates screwed up, which is insane.

If you don’t understand how insane is the logic of the current ranking system, then imagine yourself being a 6th passenger in a car, and that car caused a crash because two other people started to screw around. According to the logic of OW ranking system, you are going to jail, for what those two people did :man_shrugging:

So no, you are the one being objectively wrong, but keep ignoring the fundamental problem derived from bad game design, and arguing that different beside the point issue is the “real problem” :man_facepalming:

No. I judges you based on your performance.

The match result is a team thing.

Playing well with a team is a skill you need to learn.

Nou isn’t “objectively” anything… He is just right

people need to using the law for comparisons to the game.
none of us are lawyers.

what you dont seem to understand is that winning and losing should be what you are judged on. the only reason that doesnt work too well in this case is because people like to do stupid things aka the community is the reason for the ranking systems shortcomings.

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Agree.

That and people, like the OP like to over think it.

Just play, enjoy your games. If you want to focus on your mistakes and improve, I’m sure over time you’ll notice that number going up and the colourful badge changing.

There needs to be a happy middle ground. Don’t be the Muppet messing about, but equally don’t be that toxic try hard that complains about everything.

You don’t need to be a lawyer to understand that being punished for someone else actions is irrational.

That works only in 1v1 scenario. The moment there are more people involved, the win/loss condition is split across all other people, so whether you win or lose is not only up to you anymore. Judging people solely on win/loss condition is simply unfair for everyone involved, and it will produce very skewed ranking placements.

No, it doesn’t work because ELO system was originally designed for 1v1 games, and the modified version which OW, LOL, CSGO use will rank team vs. team, NOT individual players. So the moment you want to rank people individually using a system which wasn’t designed for that, it will simply fail.

I gave up discussing the concept of ranking with him.

He has dug his hole and is in far too deep to see what’s actually at play.

not in the example you gave. the driver would still be held responsible. and if you cant prove who was at fault, most likely everyone involved would have some form of repercussion.

yeah except that literally any sport that has more than one player per team will show you otherwise.

unfair? you want to talk about fairness of the ranking system when we are playing a game where regardless of your rank, you can place with tanks that are significantly above or below you? a game where it is not uncommon to randomly place with players that you cannot group with because the sr gap is too wide?

the guitar was designed as an accompaniment, that doesn’t mean it cant be used as a lead.
intentions mean nothing dude. death of the author and all that.

you gonna go after every sport that uses a variation of it too or are you just angry that you cant carry in a dying game?

at the end of the day pal, the game is 5 years old and throughout those 5 years, the top players have been able to get to and stay at the top of the ladder consistently.
you’re allowed to dislike the system but you literally cannot say it is flawed when it has been used for years prior to this game even releasing. if there were something wrong with it, it would have been fixed literally decades ago.

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You are arguing your own version of my example, and ignoring what I said.
That’s literally another Straw Man fallacy :man_facepalming:

Examples?

So far all team based games which use ELO system have exactly the same issue where solo players have not only harder time to rank up than premades, but also more solo player is deranging hard into “ELO hell”, so idk what kind of example are you going to give here.

Yes, just because some parts of the game can be unfair, it doesn’t mean that we need to make everything unfair.

Bad logic, bad analogy.
Just because an item designed for one thing can be used for something else, it doesn’t mean it’s a good replacement.

ELO system is being used all over the place because it can be modified, but it doesn’t mean it’s very good for everything. Microsoft recognized issues which ELO has when ranking individual players, and they choose to develop their own system for individual players, which is called TrueSkill https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/trueskill-ranking-system/?from=http%3A%2F%2Fresearch.microsoft.com%2Fen-us%2Fprojects%2Ftrueskill%2Fdetails.aspx.

Who knows, maybe when MS owns Blizzard we will get TrueSkill in OW.

It’s actually trueskill2 they use now, and it wouldn’t actually function well in OW

In fact, it doesn’t function that well in the last 2 Halos, and similar systems have been used in Apex and Warzone, that are also heavily criticised as they match based on perceived rating of your skill rather than a record of how well your playing the game.

This system will enable you to essentially move up the skill based match makers “ranks” as it were without winning.

This would be terrible for OW as winning as a unit is the game. So to make it viable the weight winning carries within the algorithm would have to be heavily increased. At which point you’re basically using the same system as we already have.

So as Not has said… “if there were something wrong with it, it would have been fixed literally decades ago.”