Reporting System Open to Abuse?

[Rainmaker-2987]

@urStr8Lover-2986

So, if I report inocent people, no one will look at those reports and no one will punish players - thus no false reports. If I report people who are to be banned, then they wll be banned - thus no false reports(since, obviously these are valid reports).
So, you’re saying there are no false reports, but you’re also saying that you’ll be banned for false reports. Makes sense. To a 12 year old.

You made again a circular reasoning, concluded there are “no false reports” from nowhere. Its amazing how everytime you write you comprehend even less of what you are writing dude.

Thats a sign of circular reasoning though. It seems like you really need an example :
What you are saying is basically that stealing is not illegal, just because you stole something before (which you didnt provide evidence of, of course, because you are making that up) and didnt get caught, therefore its not illegal.

Yeah, no.

@urStr8Lover-2986

Note that you’re required to be a psychic and know what’s offensive to random people ¯_(ツ)_/¯

HAHAHAHHA. What?
It is implied that its their criteria what counts, not yours

@urStr8Lover-2986

Which makes no sense at all.

It does, to someone that actually knows how it works. Not for you obviously HAHAHA.

@urStr8Lover-2986

First of all, system is fully automated, you get reported enough times - you get punished. Were you writing “lol” or whatever is totally irrelevant

False. Zero proof to back out that. And if you got punished for writing “lol” , the GMs do actually take out your ban (a gazillion people know this, just check reddit or use common sense) so, when that person has X reports, they can SEE WHO did those reports mate.

False reports dont exist huh ? Thats why there are like 10 threads about people getting suspended by false reports just because they are OTPs and they sometimes lift the ban etc.

Google and the entire reality seems to differ mate , but hey, you do you!

@urStr8Lover-2986

And let’s not forget your claim that when you report innocent people, no one checks those reports, right? … so, there’s no chance to be falsely banned, right?

Again drawing conclussions from nothing, no one said yes to that question but still you argue against something that no one said. Its a good technique, you ask questions to an imaginary friend that agrees with you and you win

@urStr8Lover-2986

Basically, what you wrote is perfectly in line with “you can report 11 people every game and won’t be banned”, actually your claim supports it.

False. You are taking out the condition on purpose to make a strawman over and over. The condition is “IF you are lucky and your reports were not checked”

@urStr8Lover-2986

It seems to me you don’t actually understand what you’re writing, you’re using counter-arguments as arguments. It’s hilarious as balls

Yeah i can totally see you mad at your keyboard making up stuff and drawing conclussions from questions no one answered.

Good luck out there with your deductive skills, they will take you far … far far away.

PS: Keep making things up with zero evidence if you want and keep talking to yourself, you are muted.

[random-23776]

Your extreme toxic attitude with your insults really helps, now everyone can see that you are just spouting nonsense, Thanks for confirmation.

[Wozzmatic-2318]

I wrote a long reply here but apparently it needs approval before it will appear! Kinda proving my point I guess

[Wozzmatic-2318]

Guys lets not get insulting it doesn’t help progress the discussion. Suffice to say people have tested the reporting process without cause and found it to work in some cases. What we don’t know is whether the algorithm creates a ban or account silence based purely on numbers or whether there is a human being making sense of it.

Even if there is a person reviewing all cases (which I very much doubt given the sheer numbers they must receive) we are then reliant upon their interpretation of abuse. For example - someone calls me an “idiot” or “word not permitted” then I consider that abuse. If someone tells me they think I am an awful genji (which is true) then I don’t consider that to be abusive. It may be a fact or it may be their opinion but, either way, its not abusive imo. That said, some people may consider that to be abusive and will act accordingly.

I am only vaguely familiar with the code of conduct but generally apply my own human reasoning and values from my upbringing into the game. if I feel someone is a deficit in the team I’ll politely say so and suggest a comp switch. I am always happy to swap out as I am 100% flex (barring a few heroes I simply cannot play well). If I call someone an idiot then I expect to be reprimanded for it. So I don’t.

Given I am probably a lot older than the vast majority of the playerbase (and most of the OW team too probably) maybe my values are different and what I consider to be honest feedback is currently not acceptable, no matter how politely positioned. If that’s the case I have to temper my discussion accordingly.

BUT, and this is the crux of my question and post, when I have said nothing and receive a warning it has to cast doubt on the mechanisms that generate a warning. Are there countless numbers of players out there who are too afraid to chat or use voice comms for fear of reprisal?

In my opinion, like placements, it doesn’t work and I firmly believe needs changing to stop abuse of the process.

Appreciate everyones thoughts on this thanks for those who commented. I do suspect my warning was a fade over time thing as mentioned but, this serves to make a player feel even worse. Even if I had done something against the terms - I only need telling once thanks

[urStr8Lover-2986]

@Rainmaker-2987

You made again a circular reasoning, concluded there are “no false reports” from nowhere. Its amazing how everytime you write you comprehend even less of what you are writing dude.

Unfotunately, seems you have no reasoning. Your words are that if you report innocent people, those reports are discarded - which means these are not false reports, because they are discarded. But you may get banned if you falsely report people who are to be banned … wait what? How’s that a false report then? You have no idea, right? Brain off, writing on, right?

@Rainmaker-2987

Thats a sign of circular reasoning though.

Yep, we agree, you are going in circles, because you have no idea what you write
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Rainmaker-2987

It is implied that its their criteria what counts, not yours

It is implied that what’s offensive is determined by reports and Blizzard, and Blizzard decided to treat all reports as valid. That’s also in CoC, but why bother quoting, when you just ignore it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Rainmaker-2987

It does, to someone that actually knows how it works. Not for you obviously HAHAHA.

Nope, it doesn’t make sense to anyone older than 12. And I’d argue that you know anything about anything …

@Rainmaker-2987

Zero proof to back out that.

People with 70-80% w/l getting banned for disruptive gameplay … guess they’re all lucky trolls, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Rainmaker-2987

And if you got punished for writing “lol” , the GMs do actually take out your ban (a gazillion people know this, just check reddit or use common sense) so, when that person has X reports, they can SEE WHO did those reports mate.

And? What about voice chat? Sure, someone will pay customer support to resolve one ticket for 10 hours … I’d paste a quote from email ban, about appealing, but you can’t read it anyway, so, no point beating a dead horse.

@Rainmaker-2987

False reports dont exist huh ?

How many people were banned for false reports on their own? No one. You need to be reported to be banned, how many people are reporting “false reporting”? No one, because there’s no report form. Thus, there are no false reports. Every report is valid, and it counts. Once you accumulate enough reports you get punished. That is also stated by Blizzard in the “ban” section, but why put links when you can’t understand written text ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Rainmaker-2987

Again drawing conclussions from nothing, no one said yes to that question but still you argue against something that no one said.

And quote

@Rainmaker-2987

If you report totally innocent people, nobody is going to catch you buddy, because NO ONE will look at that person’s reports

So, you’re a no one? Ok, mr No One …

@Rainmaker-2987

Its a good technique, you ask questions to an imaginary friend that agrees with you and you win

Like I need to try against a person who can’t understand what they write …

@Rainmaker-2987

Yeah i can totally see you mad at your keyboard making up stuff and drawing conclussions from questions no one answered.

Yeah, well that far-left crap doesn’t work with me … Why should I be mad? Because you can’t read? Because you can’t be reasoned with? That’s how children behave, how can anyone be mad at children? They’re just adorable when they do that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@Rainmaker-2987

Good luck out there with your deductive skills, they will take you far … far far away.

Actually, my deductive skills are top notch. I do understand what I write, unlike some other people here, but I can’t hold that againt a 12y old, can I now?

@Rainmaker-2987

Keep making things up with zero evidence if you want and keep talking to yourself, you are muted.

Wow, you got me with that 12y old stuff … Will you also put your hands on your ears and sing “la-la-la-la-la”?

@Wozzmatic-2318

That said, some people may consider that to be abusive and will act accordingly.

Naah, most of the players don’t consider that abuse, but they will report you because toxic community. They fear to call you names, but they have other tool - reports.

@Wozzmatic-2318

maybe my values are different and what I consider to be honest feedback is currently not acceptable

It’s not. You should not talk about the game in the game, which makes no sense. Actually, you should not talk about anything because chances are you’ll be reported for “talking too much”.

@Wozzmatic-2318

when I have said nothing and receive a warning it has to cast doubt on the mechanisms that generate a warning

There are no clear rules what is abuse and what is not abuse, so it’s determined by number of reports.

@Wozzmatic-2318

Even if I had done something against the terms

Well, voice chat off, text chat off. But, that will get you disruptive gameplay reports. So, there’s not really a good method to avoid reports except don’t play too much. 5-10 solo games per day, and you’ll be fine.

[FatBluDragon-2951]

We actually know how the report system works by looking at some hidden golden nuggets:

Account Silenced

This little support article actually revealed that the report system works fully automatic. Take a look at this:

• Abusive chat reports will fall off after a predetermined amount of time.
• Multiple abusive chat reports from the same person do not stack—only reports from unique players are counted towards a silence penalty.
• Being reported for abusive chat while silenced does not count against you.
• The number of abusive chat reports necessary to penalize your account remains the same, regardless of past penalties.

The last part reveals that a certain number of reports are necessary to trigger a penalty. We also know that unjust penalties get lifted when the appeal was successful. This means that the reports won’t be investigated until an appeal was made, thus, the penalty is fully automatic.

This is the most efficient and cheapest way of a report-system. Everyone gets penalized but if you think that the report was unjust, just appeal and, boom, it’s like nothing happened. Too bad it doesn’t work in subjective issues and gray areas.

---

Let’s start with the grey area: One-Tricking. It is officially allowed by Blizzard but, given its similarities to grieving and feeding, it is difficult to differentiate between someone who plays their best and someone who sabotages the game. The community is also split on whether one tricking is ok or not. That split opinion and grey area cause penalties for one-tricking to be controversial because some think that the penalty is justified and others don’t.

---

Now to the subjective issue: Chat abuse. Whether a phrase hurt’s a person, that’s always up to the person’s point of view. Someone who can take criticism has no problem if he’s asked to switch but someone who is very sensitive to negative comments can get a mental breakdown by a simple question. The CoC makes things even worse:

Blizzard's In-Game Code of Conduct

In the CoC, there is one simple line that causes so many problems:

You may not use language that could be offensive or vulgar to others.

Do you see the “could”? It is the culprit for all the confusion about reports for chat abuse. That “could” indicates that any language with the possibility of being vulgar or offensive is violating the CoC. The paradox thing is that literary any language has the possibility of being vulgar or offensive, thus language itself is violating the CoC.

If you appeal a penalty, it will be up to the GM’s opinion whether you deserve the penalty or not. One GM might think you deserve it but another doesn’t. This inconsistency shouldn’t occur in a system that should give penalties without ambiguity.

---

There is only one solution to the problem regarding chat abuse: Make it clearer! Get rid of the “Could” and change it with an “is” and explain to the customer what exactly is offensive or vulgar and what’s not. Yes, the report system is still up to abuse but when appealing, your chance of success is higher because all GM’s just need to check if your language was discriminatory, insulting, a life threat, etc.

To cut it short, the report-system is fine as it is. The true problem is the appeal phase because it is inconsistent. Yeah getting penalized for nothing is annoying but not getting the penalty lifted is far worse. The first step to make the quality of appeals better is by making the CoC less ambiguous.

[Rainmaker-2987]

@FatBluDragon-2951

The last part reveals that a certain number of reports are necessary to trigger a penalty

Damn you were so close.
Triggers a review. if the review is positive, you get penalized.

If it worked the way you say, a lot more people would be silenced, therefore the ticket system would explode.

The way me, and a gazillion others in reddit think it works, is more efficient since the only tickets they have to deep dive in are the appeals.
Since the first review was done, the appeals should be quite fast.

Ding!

@FatBluDragon-2951

Do you see the “could”? It is the culprit for all the confusion about reports for chat abuse. That “could” indicates that any language with the possibility of being vulgar or offensive is violating the CoC. The paradox thing is that literary any language has the possibility of being vulgar or offensive, thus language itself is violating the CoC.

Yeah no, you went full tinfoil hat on that one mate, no offense.

That is referred to things that are not considered insults per se, per meaning of the word. Example :

• Hey dude, get the F off tracer, stuppid N-word.

Easy right ? insults there, offensive, straight up 0% chance of being a grey area.

• Dude … im positive your parents are siblings.

Zero insults, zero “bad words” … clear intention to be offensive because of the implication.

Like i said, me and a gazillion others had already our way with the Blizz crew so pretty much all is figured out. You got it like 90% right though, good job.

[FatBluDragon-2951]

@Rainmaker-2987

The way me, and a gazillion others in reddit think it works, is more efficient since the only tickets they have to deep dive in are the appeals.
Since the first review was done, the appeals should be quite fast

It would make sense until you consider what is actually cheaper and more effcient. Using fictional numbers, what sounds better?

• Automatically penalizing 1000 players and reviewing 500 appeals?
• Reviewing 1000 players, penalizing 500 players and reviewing 100 appeals?

In the first option, you have 500 total reviews by your workers. In the second option, you have 1100 total reviews by your workers.
Also, if they already review all players in the first place, why bothering in investigating the reports again? Doesn’t it seem odd and costly to double check a player to a point that they realize that they accidentally penalized an innocent player?

@Rainmaker-2987

That is referred to things that are not considered insults per se, per meaning of the word.

It still has another meaning in legal terms. Even though it seems like a slippery slope fallacy, it is still true. Simply asking:

Could you please switch? We need a healer.

…can be taken as an insulty by a senstivie player and, due to how the CoC is written, a report would be justified.

But I do see your reasoning. Not the language itself but the context behind it matters. So what if they change the line to…

You may not use language in a rude or offensive manner.

…then the CoC becomes clearer without being open for abuse. This line indicates that you use language for rude or offensive reasons. What’s the difference between this line and the previous line? The first line focus on the language itself. The second line focuses on the intention behind the language.

Both of your examples would still be a reportable offense because both of them use language in an offensive manner.

However, asking to switch is not a reportable offense anymore because the intent was constructive feedback to ensure victory, not harassing or offending the player.

The best case to see the difference is actually you!

@Rainmaker-2987

Yeah no, you went full tinfoil hat on that one mate, no offense.

This line can be taken in an offensive manner. I could think that you are mocking me and call me a crazy conspiracy theorist. You even mentioned that you intend no offense but it doesn’t matter with the current CoC because your line could be offensive. Thus, technically speaking, if I flag you for violating the CoC, it would be justified.

However, what if the new line was used:

You may not use language in a vulgar or offensive manner.

I could still take your comment as an insult but it wouldn’t be justified in the CoC because you intend no harm but rather, you tried to get me back to the ground.

Look, my argument isn’t that Blizzard is penalizing anyone because the CoC allows so. My point is that the phrasing of the CoC is vague, making chat abuse issues difficult because anything can be considered offensive, thus it is up to personal opinion. A reasonable GM would still give good verdicts but the ambiguous phrasing still allow errors to a point where “not communicating” can be offensive. (Based on anecdotal testimonies though)

[Rainmaker-2987]

@FatBluDragon-2951

It would make sense until you consider what is actually cheaper and more effcient. Using fictional numbers, what sounds better?

• Automatically penalizing 1000 players and reviewing 500 appeals?
• Reviewing 1000 players, penalizing 500 players and reviewing 100 appeals?

Flawed comparison.
You are basing your numbers on your stance. If the system was triggered so easily, you would have 100 players punished and around 900 appeals.

Those appeals would be longer (time is money mate) and therefore more expensive.

If you review 1000 players and you penalize 500, the appeals would be really really really tiny, like 50 and even if they were 100, hell, even 200, they would be ultra fast because a review was already done.

@FatBluDragon-2951

Also, if they already review all players in the first place, why bothering in investigating the reports again?

Because they are not done by a machine, its a human, therefore there can be mistakes.

@FatBluDragon-2951

Doesn’t it seem odd and costly to double check a player to a point that they realize that they accidentally penalized an innocent player?

Nope. Specially when you can see where the false reports came from and strike them for abusing the penalty system (its a thing pal, look for it).

@FatBluDragon-2951

It still has another meaning in legal terms. Even though it seems like a slippery slope fallacy, it is still true.

Let me stop you right there. Its not. Plain and simple.
That “could” refers to their criteria and “common” sense. Its a grey area but its not an absurdly huge and vague statement that you could extrapolate something like “therefore language is against CoC”. Period. That is not up for discussion.

If you report someone for saying “Could you please switch? We need a healer” and they review that person appeal (in the OFF case scenario he got punished, which is REALLY small according to my stance, and would be BRUTALLY huge according to yours) then you will be punished for abusing the report system.

Facts :

• You can get punished for abusing the penalty system
• If your estimation was correct, the vast majority of OW community would have at least 1-2 silences.
• Just because you false report some dude, and dont get caught, it doesnt mean that what you did wasnt against the rules.

This “social experiment” is done by people every single day, specially in EU. People are REALLY toxic in this game, im positive that on every game session you end up throwing a sarcastic comment or just blaming someone or just cursing an enemy etc … if what you said was really true, i would probably be banned right now.

I REALLY do not filter myself, like you can see here and in voice chat … oh boy ITS ON.

0 penalties. 0 silences. 0 suspensions.

Kinda speaks for itself but hey, your opinion is valid. Dont think you are 100% right but pretty close. Agree to disagree.

[FatBluDragon-2951]

@Rainmaker-2987

That “could” refers to their criteria and “common” sense. Its a grey area but its not an absurdly huge and vague statement that you could extrapolate something like “therefore language is against CoC”. Period. That is not up for discussion.

That was my whole point. It’s a grey area. I used the slippery slope fallacy to show why it’s a grey area. It’s a grey area because, with that “could”, you can make the absurd yet logical claim that language itself is against the CoC.

And no, as I said before, my claim isn’t that blizzard is reporting every player. Heck, I think the opposite, that actually much less players get penalized than we presume because of concentrated, negative exposure on the forums.

My point was only that this grey area exist and I’d prefer the CoC to be without it.

Regarding the report system itself, I do see now how reviewing players before penalizing them is more reasonable. Come to think of it, it explains why we also hear from denied appeals more often than approved ones; Because innocent players getting falsely reported won’t get banned in the first place, except for some slip ups.

[Wozzmatic-2318]

Thank you bud that does help clear some things up for me. I should have done the leg work myself so feel a little embarrassed but appreciate the effort pulling the sources together to help me understand a little more.

On that subject I suspect someone “has it in for me”. I sit here at 16:00 GMT on Thursday evening and haven’t played since Tuesday early evening. I logged in briefly yesterday but didn’t play a game as we had to go out to visit family and I ran out of time. There was no warning on my account either Tuesday or Wednesday.

I have just logged in to receive a warning for abusive chat. I can’t fathom this out and can only assume there are some old acquaintances on my friends list that are reporting me. I can’t understand how else this could happen if I haven’t played since Tuesday where I encountered only great friendly players.

Is it because I play Moira mostly?

[PAPANOOB-21754]

plz check my post and give me ur opinions:

Urgent help needed!

Hello, I am a torb/genji player , master rank. Lately, i got a mute because i am abusive? i never join voice or type anything in chat other than : gg or fun game or good round … Anyway i am sure this ‘mute’ is simply because i play torb ( i have high win rate and im 3450 rating, and end almost every game with at least 3 golds and potg) Now, as it seems, as i am in a win streak, i get a ban for ‘disruptive play’ , and i am sure the only reason is because i play torb. So, why don’t you make to…

[maStaOP-2979]

Blizz is PC AF. It woud be much better game if for adults only.