#reworkmercy , it's a mess

General Discussion
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So this is a hot topic right now and obviously no one seems to agree on anything, So what I’m going to do is summarize the dps perspective, the mercy/support players perspective and then my own. I just wanted to make this post because it seems that everyone has a different idea of what is going on and hopefully seeing it all written in one place will open everyone up to new ideas and discussion.

For those of you who dont know this movement was started by Aria Rose on Youtube in response to the #deletebrig movement, which we can all agree was warranted to some degree but now she has been nerfed so lets forget about that. Aria’s main points in her Mercy videos is that Blizzard doesn’t seem to listen to its community.’ Blizzard ADMITS to the Poor State of Overwatch - YouTube ’ this is a great video explaining the lack of communication and general discussion better than i can.

On to the dps perspective, Almost all the dps players who have commented on this movement seem to think that it is simply a drive to revert mercy back to mass rez, this is false. No one wants mass rez back, it was not healthy for the game it its original state. Another point that gets thrown everywhere is that - in a team-fight one team will throw all their ults a kill the enemy team when mercy will swoop and press one button and undo all their work, This so-called hide and rez strat was the reason given for mercy’s initial rework. Unfortunatly when the rework dropped, I, like many other mercy players were confused since hide and rez would get mercy killed rather than flip the fight. Most mercy players stuck to the quality over quantity strat only rezzing a few key teammates who have thier ults available, the led to (in my experience) many dps yelling in voice chat to be solo rezzed, and after the rework this has thankfully stopped, Another point is that Ana was bad for 6 seasons so why cant mercy be bad for 1? This is a very toxic mindset as every character should be viable even if they all have situational uses. However i will say thank you to all the dps players who are having constructive discussions about Mercy and the state of overwatch. To end of this paragraph i’ll link to a video that explains all this MERCY DOESN'T NEED A REWORK?! (Angry Mercy Main Rants) - YouTube . Love u hoshi

Now onto the mercy players perspective. There are many, many, many different ideas about mercy and what to do with her but what i’ve noticed is that everything boils down to 2 main points: Mercy needs a healing buff, she cannot keep up with ana or moira in terms of healing and both ana and moira can deal alot of damage and offer utility while healing, mercy is simply not able to heal and damage at the same time, and her only utility is rez which is a good ability but the game is so fast paced now with stuns and snipes that more often than not you’re just going to be stunned or killed mid rez. Secondly mercy has no pay off/ satisfying moments in her kit, by this i mean Ana has all her utility, and landing that sleep dart feels amazing, Moira has her ult, do i need to elaborate? Mercy doesn’t have this, her it feels clunky and slow and the cast time on rez feels abrupt and halts all momentum you’ve built up by using guardian angel.

Personally i would just like to see a slight increase to her healing so she can keep up with the likes of Ana and Moira, dont get me wrong she is close but she is slagging behind. She also needs a change to her kit making her feel more fluid to play so mercy cant build up more momentum and feel more impact full to play, not in terms of rez but not as clunky as she is now. I also think there are many more problems that need to be discussed but everyone has turned to mercy because of her ‘controversial’ past

I just want the game to be in a healthier state of everyone and all the toxicity currently being trowing around like some toddler temper tantrum and not going to get us anywhere.

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How about #deletemercy . Seems like nobody will be happy no matter in which direction she goes so better delete her instead.

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that doesn’t really solve anything. If we delete her that will create another toxic storm where we will just delete all the other heroes like doomfist or briggete.

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People dont like having to kill something all over again. They dont like wasting time on taking out a target and then it come back 2secs later and kills them because they wasnt watching a slow moving target rez the dead player…Should introduce terminus from paladins…rez + D.va nuke! :stuck_out_tongue:

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So what you’re basically saying is, people don’t like playing Overwatch? :sweat_smile:

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You just made a terrible assuption so i stopped reading here. Playing as support doesn’t mean i don’t like having impact on the game.

Cheers.

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There was nothing wrong with mass res. The game has aprox 58 board clear ults and had 1 board res. People cried because they don’t understand game design which is fiiiiine. As game designers, it’s Jeffs job to cater to these whiny people so they removed it and gave us Valk instead. I like Valk and am perfectly happy with it being in the game instead of mass res, but I know full well that mass res wasn’t fundamentally a problem, it was only perceived to be one.

Now, I know Bustar or Weaver or… whatever their names are… you know, the resident Mercy bashers might pop in to rehash the same tired old arguments but whatever. People have opinions and that’s fine. I have nothing to lose and nothing to gain from pointing out the real reasons why mass res was removed. I am not some Mercy main crying over her lost mass res ult. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest. However, be under no illusion, removing it was an attempt by the design team to appease whiny players who perceived there to be a problem because all their “hard work” got deleted…

Well, as any smart girl/boy will quickly realise, this game is packed to the brim with abilities that delete “hard work”. It’s just that your soft, squishy brains don’t realise it. You think it’s all pure skill when you score that kill, but in most cases it’s just because you’re taking advantage of a “cheap” ability.

Now, here is an unrelated pic of Morpheus smashing your reality to pieces with the truth. :yum:

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the truth hurts…

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I personaly wonder how those same people would react if they made their favorite heroes became less effective,I can allready see whats going to happen

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Oof, that’s way too much ad hominem to me.

The “Mass Rez is cheap” is definetly a double edged sword because the same argument can be used by most other ultimates, just like you said. However, I don’t think that the popular demand was the only reason they reworked mercy.

One argument I remember is that mercy players were too cautious when having their ult ready. Some hid for a long time to ensure they’re there to rez and others hardly use their ult because they never find the opportunity to do that. They got Analysis paralysis and end up playing less actively.

The Valkyre is more forgiving, compared to mass rez, because you have more opportunities to use. However, in my opinion, it turned Mercy a bit stale because of lacking depth. She is still enjoyable but she’s not perfect. If her kit gets tweaked so you could, for example, do burst healing for a short period of time. Your idea of a resource system sounds loveley. It might be the perfect to add enough depth without making the player startled by overanalyzing the situation.

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Yea, I know what Jeff claims in his little update video. Forgive me for being short but I’ve already had this conversation many times before. :yum: The argument given in Jeffs update doesn’t hold up since we’ve got Mcree and Reaper and various others who do the same thing for their ults. Many a Mcree has been off hiding, not contributing to the team so he can pop out and press Q. It’s the same thing but you don’t see me complaining about that.

Valk is an inoffensive ult. It was designed to be that way. It gives Mercy a bunch of bonuses spread across her kit. AoE healing, more survivability, not having to reload her gun. As you point out, it’s as dull and safe as dish water but that was the point. Jeff was super careful to give her something that wouldn’t upset anyone.

We can talk about how to make Valk cooler and more engaging, but I nu got the time right now! My friend wants me to watch Babylon 5 with him! :open_mouth:

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Why people always wanna change Mercy ?
If you don’t like her just don’t play her.
She’s fine.

The only thing who feel clunky is here rez who break the dynamic of the char.
Otherwise she’s pretty fine.

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Rez is just to powerful.
That why they nerfed her healing so she wouldn’t be picked in every game (yes one tricking , even for healers is bad. So for all mercy mains who has +90% time on mercy… learn to play other healers, same counts for one trick tracers etc…)

  • You pick moire for groups that stay close together since she has the best group healing.
  • You pick lucio for groups with slow moving heroes on map(parts) you have to close gaps to the enemy.
  • you pick ana on maps and against teams where she can stay in the back rather easily
  • you pick zen when you want to burst down tanks, or have a good focus damage group.
  • you pick brig to counter dive(or at least should be)
  • you pick mercy for the boost for high mobile/damage heroes like widow or pharah, so she can stay alive when dived. (at least at the moment, so in the goats meta she isnt played much)

If you want to change mercy you first have to figure out another reason (that is unique for the healers -> and not be so powerful you would want her all the time) why you would pick her.

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I played a lot pharah. But at the moment, with so many good hit scans heroes, and diva most played hero. I most of the time swap of her real fast.

And i am fine with that, i have been practicing other dps heroes and becoming better on them. But yes i often still first try pharah and see if they have any good hitscans or a good dva. At the current level there arent many good hitscans (lots who just try but cant) and most dva’s dont dive.

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You can always quit if you don’t like the game, kappa

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Even if they rework her the mercy whiners will complain again if the rework doesnt include mass rez

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They’ve said no, they’ve said they’re pretty happy with where she is.

aria gold should be utterly ignored, especially considering the level of bias in her vids

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Lets all be honest. What is the happiest you have ever heard you team? Ofc it was after a mass revive. The joy you’d hear from your team was a fantastic feeling.

Now what happens is your healing is less, so you lose that teammate you’ve been sat there keeping heal on. And when you go for that revive, that random flanker, stun, headshot, person that comes around the corner a decent amount of time after you started your revive suddenly kills you turning it into a 4v6. You harm the team rather than saving it and the team get mad at you. Does not matter how well you co-ordinate with your team it just happens far too often and even if you see it coming during the rez there is no amount of slow mo matrix wiggling gunna save you. Rez is much harder to pull off than a cree ult because you have to be where the teammate died. Especially when you climb the ranks more and people know how to shoot/kill better.

Now the difference here is massive. Fun and not fun.

You can say all you like about how old mercy mains whine etc but the simple fact is our fun was screwed up to the extreme. We want our team to be happy. You know what i hear all the time. Great job mercy, brilliant heals mercy. Yet time and time again i am forced to try for a revive and no matter how safe i think it is i die far too often. Remove it or change how it works. Honestly i’d swap revive for a heal buff if thats all thats willing to be considered. There are actually hundreds of options for changes to mercy to stop this unfun revive.

  1. Mercy revives at a distance
  2. Mercy revives instantly with the hp of the hero being revived being lower and when healed it does not give the healers ult charge
  3. Revive e gets replaced as an ult toggle and can be used for a local 2-3 player revive
  4. Just get rid of revive (but slight healing buff please)
  5. Mercy can move freely when reviving and no amount of going around corners or boop will cancel it
  6. Mercy can revive when connecting her beam to the body and pressing e instead of having to stand on the body
  7. Bring back old mercy
  8. Reduce the time of the revive
  9. Reduce the slow of the revive
  10. Mercy can revive someone by pushing the number of that hero wherever mercy may be
  11. Mercy e gets a charge depending on how long she has had her revive up, the higher the charge the faster the revive. Instant revive when fully charged
  12. Make the revive cancelable and you get it back instantly to try again

I’d come up with more but i got to go to bed :confused:

Plenty of options out there, these are just some that I’ve come up with on the spot. In my opinion the revive has been far too much of a learning curve and no amount of practice or teammwork makes it enjoyable to use. Problem you’ve got now is too many people have come into overwatch as mercy players now used to beammonster and only knowing beammonster. Us kind loving old mercy mains do not want to mess with their ult like blizzard did ours. Only solution you have atm is keep the beammonster but sort the revive out. And if possible slightly buff the healing. Like normal pistol is and always has been fine.

Oh yeah and big rez spray. What a joke that is now.

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Yep, you don’t like how cast time res feels because there is an inherent issue with causality. When you use an ability and fail, you need to be able to learn from your mistake. Cast time puts you in a situation where you are stuck with very little control of your character for 2.5 seconds. 2.5 seconds is an eternity in this game. Players are constantly predicting what will happen in the next moment in OW but with the fast paced nature of the game and with all the variables involved, it’s impossible to look very far ahead.

With heroes that can teleport across the map, blink, go invisible ect ect, you need to be able to react constantly. You cannot lose control of your character like you do when you cast res. This results in no causality and causality = fun.

Brain has to identify mistake and want to fix it for next time. If brain can’t do that then brain get sad. :worried:

Now, you’ll say “Oh, but there’s CC in the game!” and that’s true, but the causality there is to learn not to get frozen or hacked ect. You can react to those things. Why didn’t you shoot that Sombra and interrupt her hack? Why did you stand in front of Mei holding a sign saying “please kill me Mei!”?

Then you’ll say “Oh, well use your Reinhardt to shield you!”, but that’s hardly an infallible protection and also the location of the corpse is out of your control, if your Reinhardt listens and helps you is also out of your control. You’re seeing the issue here? YOU HAVE NO CONTROL. THERE IS NO CAUSALITY.

When you go in for a res, you are in effect putting your faith in the world around you. You rely on your allies to be smart and your enemies to be dumb. It’s 100% everyone else and 0% you. This is bad design. Teamwork is great, but teamwork by its definition should idealy be 50% you and 50% your allies.

So, how do we fix this?

Well, the skill expression should be placed into the ACQUISITION of the res ability in the first place rather than trying to nerf the ability itself with silly things like cast times.

What does this mean? Well… resource system??

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZmwOjHwhw9s/hqdefault.jpg

Or ya, shifting it back onto the ult would also be fine, but I like to run with the assumption that Blizz has too much of an ego to do that. Reverting would be admission of a mistake and we can’t have that! :open_mouth:

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I just want to give my opinion on these two point :
1 - The ult and feeling :
I don’t use Valk as a defensive ultimate since a long moment now. In fact this ult is way more efficient when you use it in a good timing for initiate a push by taking advantage of a 1st pick.
To me, this ult is not worth saving to much, he load very fast and the massive team dmg boost/heal give a very nice advantage to your team.
And, almost in all game I play as Mercy, ppl thank me for good job. That make me happy, and if they told you that, they’r happy too :slight_smile: and you congratz them too.
Hapyness is not about a single skill, it’s about action in game who make you win or if you lose, have a very good fight until overtime.

2- The Rez :
On this one, I totaly agree. I think this skill do not feel good in her kit.
Some wanna buff it, but I don’t. I would rather remove it totaly and add something who fit better with the fast dynamic of mercy kit.
Mercy is all about mobility and reactivity to get you out of trouble or get close to save your mate.
And the slow rez feel clunky in this. I really would love to have something new who fit her better.
I think ppl stay to much focuz on the rez, but I don’t find this kill good. No mobility, very long CD (30sec in OW is an eternity) and put you in danger most than any other skill in the game.

I don’t ask to change, but if one day they do, I’ll be glad.

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