#reworkmercy , it's a mess

General Discussion
21

tl;dr
This is all you would have to say:

Any comments about delmercy, delbrig → go delete your f account ftards

I’m mad enough brigs latest nerf but brig can still carry.

22

I wanna give my five cents to this topic from a design philosophy point of view:

Before the rework marcy’s most active ability was the res. The hide and res strat was a bit annoying, since it wasn’t fun to not participate in the fight, even though I can see why some people might have enjoyed it. I don’t think the problem was that it “deleted” the hard work that others did, since it was an ult, and as it has been pointed out, ults in this game can have major impact on the game. The unfortunate truth is that we went from a minor problem to a huge problem.*

The design philosophy for the rework was really good. Immediately after the rework she felt amazing to play, not (just) because she was so overpowered, but her skills felt active. Her mobility buffs was very much called for, and added into mercy’s activity in the sense that it became more interesting to learn to fly the correct distances, and you had more options. Using her valk felt like you as a person was doing impact instead of the character by design, because you could click it in the wrong place, even though this was mainly due to the fact that the skill was so incredibly overpowered. You wasted it, you wasted huge potential.

Too bad they didn’t see how powerful it is to res someone, which in hindsight, should have been obvious. I mean everyone knows how futile it is to try to win when one leaves in your team. That is almost how it felt like playing against a mercy if you didn’t have one yourself.

The problem has then become that since res is inherently so powerful, her other abilities has gotten nerfed to a point where she feels incredibly passive and monotone.

I feel similarly passive when playing moira or brigitte. Even if they are way more impactful than mercy, there is hardly any playing involved from the character itself. The skills they require are more or less general overwatch skills that apply to all heroes, with slight variations. An obvious example is brigittes ult. Huge impact, but can anyone honestly congratulate themselves after using it, especially when it is best used outside of a fight? It’s obvious that the impact comes from character design, not from the person playing the hero.

Apparently there are people who enjoy this aspect, so I don’t want to claim this aspect is objectively bad. Still, it very much deters people like me from playing healer as their main, since I only like playing ana (and zen, but his more like a dps form a game play standpoint), but if I main ana i need to be open to switching to other main healers like mercy or moira which I absolutely do not like.

To sum up, the original design philosophy in the rework for mercy was good, the execution was bad. With Moira and Brig it’s the opposite, even though I guess you could argue that with Brig the execution was bad as well.

*I just want to point out that the game has always been enjoyable for me, even in its “broken” states. It is a testament, imo, to how resilient the game core mechanics are to hero design mistakes. Prob mainly due to the one hero limit.

2 Likes
23

I agree, Mercy shouldn’t be back at the level of Moth meta. all we want is for mercy too feel impact-full and fun as what playing Ana and Moira feels like,

24

AREN’T YOU ???

Dead eye has wind-up time and counter play : map geometry, shields, and burst damage. Also Mccree has 0 mobility so he takes long enough to flank and hide.

Are you really comparing it to flying in (as mercy is the 2nd most mobile supp) and instantly rez all her team making the whole fight void and null ? Where is the counter play ? Where is YOUR hard work ? Is hiding it ?

Giving all your team 60h/s or 33% damage boost while having mad survivability and mobility, and great damage with the gun is “dull and safe” ???

You mercy mains make me mad, you don’t play overwatch, you play mercy.

2 Likes
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NO I AM NOT, WHY IS MY CAPLOCK ON?? HOW DO I TURN THIS THING OFF??!

Oh, there it is. :yum:

Yep, and Mercy has to get close when Mcree can do it from any range. There’s always variables going both ways. Do not make the age old mistake of only cherry picking the variables that support your argument. :yum:

It sure is. It’s spreading the benefits of the ult across a variety of aspects of her kit, rather than giving her something dramatic that dumb players will pick up on as being “OP”. I mean you can claim Valk is “OP”, but that’s only based on values and values can be tweaked. You can’t tweak a res. It does what it says on the tin. You can always change values in the Valk ult to balance it.

26

Sure I am cherry picking :slight_smile: and sure pressing shift is tough

Tell me which ultimate has as much impact ? Which has no counterplay ?

Who said it was OP ? And of course you can change values, this doesn’t mean anything.

Well you’re a mercy main so I shouldn’t have to think about that for you : you can tweak rez. Wind up time ? Range ? Hp restored ? Max people rezzed ? Ultimate cost ? Maybe wait 0.5s for giving 50health or 0.5 per teammate rezzed ?

Do you have any viable logical argument or are you just complaining for the sake of it like half the people on this forum ? Genuinely curious.

27

lol

It has lots of counterplay.

A hypothetical person.

I already said that I’m not complaining. :sweat_smile:

I’m not asking you to. You clearly don’t understand design so your opinion means very little to me.

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lmao

Yeah sure, that’s why you don’t name any :slight_smile:

I was quoting you… Or did you mean hypocrite ? Either way I just listed the ability’s effects, which to me is fair, you just put words in my mouth but I can quote you on this :

Complaining then saying “I’m not complaining” is still complaining.

Out of arguments so you resort to belittling the opponent : good :slight_smile: but you can note that you didn’t refute any of mine, while I went through all of yours : who doesn’t understand design ?

Yeah you bet my opinion doesn’t matter to you, it doesn’t go in line with your beliefs so you should just cover your ears and keep telling yourself you are right and others are wrong instead of just having a logical debate and learning.

29

rofl

Why should I? I don’t need to explain to you why the grass is green. :sweat_smile:

Ohh, you’re taking it very personally, huh? That was a hypothetical person. When I say “you can say this”, it’s like I’m preempting a point that someone might make and then deconstructing it. You didn’t enter into the equation. :yum: I understand how that’d go over your head. To you, this is clearly extremely personal.

rofl.

If you don’t understand design, then you don’t understand design. That’s not belittling. It’s just a thing… You’ve proven this by neglecting variables in your argument, meaning that you either don’t understand design or you purposefully ignored those variables. Either way, it’s not good or constructive. I cannot explain to you why the grass is green and I cannot engage in a decent debate with someone who just doesn’t like Mercy and am willing to disregard variables in order to try and make his/her position seem stronger. Ye get me? Probably not…

lol

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Sorry dude, it’s fun for a little bit but I’m bored of you now. You understand, I’ve had these verbal battles with Mercy haters aprox 529 times now. It gets boring real quick.

You might be an alt account of a Mercy hater or you’re new here. Either way, this all probably seems fun and new to you, but I’m only interested in talking with real people. Sorry! :hearts:

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You say it’s obvious that it has counterplay, giving no examples, well I did with my argument, so maybe I can give some for you : you could be found while hiding for rez, or you could be oneshot/slept/cc in the two/three seconds opportunity window it takes to fly in and instant rez the whole team ; those are just very highly skilled actions that could prevent a no skill one.

You say I am taking it personally and you’re not totally wrong : you made it personal telling me I don’t understand design, instead of actually arguing. As I said, you don’t seem to play overwatch, you play mercy ; well I play almost half of the hero roster so you may understand mercy design, I understand overwatch’s heroes’ design.

You say I overlook variables : I didn’t in my example with Mccree and I showed you why by quoting myself.

You say I’m a mercy hater : I’m not. I am new to the forum and I discovered all the mercy mains banter, one out of 8 posts is that. This is indeed funny for me to discover this circle-jerk of mad mercys complaining. I get it, you were OP for a year and now you’re kinda balanced, maybe even a little underpowered… Ouch.

Now I understand, and won’t go any further, I just hop in in those debates to try and make my point across but I realized this is just you guys venting and ranting with no real arguments.
I hope you understand what I am talking about, but I expect you won’t ; nevermind I at least tried.

Have a good one

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How can you even be saying such ilogical stuff, “The people with the evidence, that showed is the troublesome parts of mass rez, dont know that it was a problem”. I love it. It is always like that with you, you discredit straight data, when it is right there.

:joy:

33

Also dont call people Mercy haters, just cause they actually come with objective truths to the difficulties of certain heroes vs others. I mean again this is supported in game, developer intentions, by the pros, their coaches, their staff etc.

Just cause you still believe that Mercy is equally hard to play as Ana, doesn´t make it objectively based as the Mercy one trick loving person you are.

Just accept the fact, that you like the character and you are extremely biased towards that one character, meanwhile we have the highest speaking authorities from all sections disagreeing with your statements.

1 Like
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The fix to this issue is not buffing her, it is making her more skillfull to play/harder to play, so that you can be rewarded for getting better. That is why Ana is only a better healer for 50% of the playerbase, cause she rewards aiming at a certain point, where Mercy is as you say, dull and easy. Make her aim her beam, make her able to miss it, give it more HPS as compensation but still give it a little auto aim, SLIGHT.

35

Heey it’s Darkweaver! Hi Darkweaver! :sweat_smile:

Who are you quoting? Is this English?

What data? What are you talking about? :rofl:

rofl

Hahah… oh? Ok? Highest speaking authorities, mhm? :joy:

See, this is the level you need to reach Pizza. Darkwaver is gold standard when it comes to constructive debate. Just create a strawman to attack, come up with made up quotations and then claim there’s data somewhere that proves everything I’ve said wrong.

Classic! :yum:

36

  1. look at the developer made star difficulty rating in game

  2. look at the pro scenes vocal oppinion on mercy

  3. So i will wait for your proof that those two aren´t the highest “Authorities” on what is hard or not.

Also

I made an is, where there should be an us. Otherwise it makes perfect sense, showing how you are still disagreeing with the fact, that Blizzard has data on how many Mercy players were abusing the Mass rez to gain the system, by actually letting their team die. :slight_smile:

i mean you litterally just make emotes at all the perfectly sound arguments i make cause you have nothing to come back with. I guess you are the type of person to doubt everything your doctor tells you about your health, cause “AUTHORITIES, MHM? :joy:” Right :slight_smile:

37

Dont even try to argue with him man he is a “GAME DEVELOPER” or some sh*t, so he obviously knows, what he is talking about, when everyone having the experience and expertise to tell him objectively otherwise.

No matter how much fact or data you link him, he will just site mercy mains and dismiss it to no prevail, cause that is just how he thinks a debate goes.

1 Like
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So basically, liike every other whining entitled mercy main on the forums, you want an echo chamber.

you want to ignore the fact blizzard themselves have said they’re happy with mercy? You want to ignore the fact you don’t have any arguments at all?

2 Likes
39

Regardless of how much you want this to be true, it simply isn’t. If they were catering to complaints only, nothing would ever be done because there’s way too many player complaints as someone will always be bothered by something. No, they take in the complaint and compare it the their back-end stats, so believe it or not, they do have more information on the issue than players do. I’d rather trust developers explanation over a biased player opinion.

But just assuming that mercy got reworked because of “squishy brain whiny people” is alright? Saying everyone who disagrees has a squishy brain and is whiny is already conflicting with making a decent debate.

Yes, too many. You can go in circles with the two ultimates, from effort it takes to charge both ults, to their set-up and execution.

Much like no one had control over invincible mercy resetting the overtime timer with a 5man rez. Both are wrong, imo. I do however, like your idea of scrap mechanic and think it’s worth testing.

Personally I wouldn’t compare rez to high noon for various reasons, one being it’s a different class all together and the other being it doesn’t revolve around allies dying, even if it’s on occasion.

Mercy is a hero that most players either love or hate, there’s very little in between, hence the big gap in opinions. I personally don’t enjoy playing her, but I don’t mind the hero itself.

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Nah man we just don’t know anything about design and are mercy haters… You fell in the same trap I did ; she doesn’t argue she vents and complains