Yeah, what do we know, i only site pros, game developers and more, have achieved top 500 and played on teams at 4.4k average SR, with coaching staff, managers and more. If the 4.4k mercy players i have played with all tell me, that yes Mercy is boring, easy and not fun to play. Then i should def listen to someone like endoftheline, that has once told himself, that he only hit 4k cause of the op Mercy meta.
Who would have thonk
Wow, I defo don’t have these qualifications, but at least I’m not a know-it-all whiny mercy otp so I got that going for me
I miss the videos where Mercy mains were exposed for being silver one season and GM the next.
Oh wait, this is what happened with Brigitte, never mind.
Two broken and to easy to play heroes = Free ranks dude. It is like welfare payments.
If they actually catered to the whiny players Mercy would be in an OP state right now after reading some of ya’lls suggestions…
I dunno who “ya’ll” is, but I call for a rework, not a buff or a nerf. A well designed rework by its very nature doesn’t make a character “OP”. In fact my usual suggested rework leaves lots of room for number tweaking in order to make it balanced.
Dummies look at the game in terms of changing values like damage and healing, but that’s the easy-peasy part. The more fundamental and infinitely important part is creating a kit that works, is fun to play and leaves room to be easily balanced whilst taking into account all variables.
But then, it doesn’t matter what I say to the Darkwavers and Bustars of this place, because they just pull out the same strawman preconceptions that I’m a Mercy main and thus I must just want her to be OP! Heck, I’ve got people here claiming that I’m whining about something, after I clearly said that I have no issue with mass res being replaced with Valk. 
I have no end goal here, so there’s literally nothing for me to whine about, still, here I am being accused of whining? 
What am I whining about? 
All I’ve said here are the real reasons why mass res was removed and that was because OTHERS were whining and complaining. But, here we have the same old faces and a new one trying to turn it around back to me… when… I haven’t whined about it in the slightest. 
But it doesn’t matter to them, because it’s just natural put up that good old Mercy Main strawman and bash that.
This is why I just laugh at most of the ridiculous comments here. It’s just a pantamine. I have zero respect for you baby Mercy haters. 
Blizz always say they’re happy with things and then change them later. Blizz are happy with things that are generally perceived to be balanced by the player base. That’s in line with Valk, and I agree… nothing wrong with Valk really, except it’s pretty dull, but that’s hardly game breaking is it? Again, you’re assuming I’m whining about the status quo, but I’m not.
Arguments about what? You want my opinions on reworks? See, I just explained the real reasons why mass res was removed, but if you want to have a discussion about how to fix Mercy I’ll engage with you if you’re actually interested and can be constructive about it. You’ll understand if I’m a bit slow to engage though, as I have to dig through the Mercy haters to find real people, painfully rare diamonds in the rough.
In every single one of my arguments I quoted you, I spent time to make it clear and to answer any of yours.
You on the other hand, put words in my mouth, avoid questions or answer with questions, don’t bother giving examples, insult me.
Check yourself
True, but in this case the complaints were a big reason. They have the triangle thing where they take into account the whining by players and since Mercy is one hero in a roster of many, there were naturally a lot of upset players. There are lots of board clears, but those are accepted by the player base because they’re common place so their presence in the system goes over their head. That’s only natural.
They whined and had squishy brains, yes? What’s the issue? I’m not necessarily saying that you whined or have a squishy brain. I don’t know you.
Yep.
Ya, could be cool. Thing about the mass res is, it IS an ult and I don’t tend to compare ults with regular abilities because ults by their very nature are meant to be OP. Like, when a competent Genji puts his mind to it, there’s basically no escape from his ult most of the time, which is fine. This is a thing, we’re talking about an ult here… they’re supposed to be powerful. However, you can always counter it with another board clear ult.
Ult board clears.
Res brings them back.
Ult board clears.
Either way, ults have been “wasted”, but I argue that they weren’t wasted at all, they were traded. Annnnd, you can always hunt down the Mercy whilst she’s “hiding”, there are lots of flanker type heroes and whatnot. Anyway, as we’ve agreed, there are LOADS of variables to consider.
This.
Where? I think you’re misconstruing general statements I brought up by a hypothetical person as me putting words in your mouth. I never did that. When I say things like “You could say this”, and then answering that, that’s not putting words in your mouth. You don’t enter into the equation in those instances. Now, if I did put words in your mouth, maybe you’d want to say where and I’ll deal with them on a case by case basis. But, I know you have had trouble identifying when I’m speaking with you and when I’m giving out potential counters to arguments and then rebutting them.
What the heck is going on right now?
We have alredy agreed that we wouldnt mind a rework, but is it fair for mercy to get one before the other heroes that still see no play or is still trash and need one ? I mean torb still deserves more of a second rework than Mercy does.
Your ideas are fine, but you forget economics. Why should blizzard keep spending a sh*t ton of extra money on making differences to a character that make her more in line with your ideals, when we have a lot of other, very qualified people saying, that she is in a, or close to a good state ( slight tweaks).
Then we have other characters like mei, that is useless so many places, torb that is still iffy and Symm that is complete cheese comps now, but at least works on ATT.
Remind you, that you were the one to quote that i am the Mercy hater, before i had even quoted you in here, you are always the one attacking people, without them even being in the thread.
After this you keep saying “STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN, STRAWMAN” have you forgotten, that our whole post history is visible, i can pull forward the evidence that you defended Mercy being equally hard to Ana or the posts of you saying that the statement of Mercy players hiding with mass rezz, was an illusion, when Blizzard in fact has data on this and said it.
You argue with feelings, we do it with facts or through the words of qualified professionals in the field we are arguing. It is quite easy to see, why you keep going for us as individuals without ever going with real arguments.
Cheers buddy, once again you made a whole thread watch your “hating and belittling” other people, who weren´t even in the thread before you did it.
What a joke ![:joy:](https://d1kzxbyyijk9k6.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
The usual pantamine. Enjoy the show. ![:yum:](https://d1kzxbyyijk9k6.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/yum.png?v=6" ":yum:")
Facts and feelings, quite simple arguments of a logical side and an irrational side.
I dunno?? I don’t expect they’ll EVER rework Mercy, but doesn’t mean I’ll stop talking about it. I happen to enjoy design. I know it makes me come across as egotistical or whatever, but I can’t help that! You think I’m egotistical about stuff I don’t care about? Nope. I talk about Mercy a lot because I like doing it. There are problems in the design that I want to fix. Heck, I’ve never seen you talk about whatever hero you play and how he/she might be improved. All I ever see from you is how much you hate Mercy.
It’s easy to bash a strawman. Harder to put forth ideas on how to improve things. I reject the idea that we need to shut up about Mercy because “other” heroes should be a priority. If Blizz did their jobs correctly to begin with then there would be no reason to talk about it, but there is.
I’m not saying other heroes don’t need work too, but I’m obviously focused on the hero I care and know about best, because I play the bloody woman.
Feel free to go through my post history, i have advocated for changes to Hanzo, before they made them, Mccree, who still has fundamental problems, nerfs to heroes i play, or agreements that i dont mind the nerfs to others i played, like Soldier nerfs. But the problem is this forum is filled with people talking about Mercy, compared to other heroes no one comes close.
The other problem is, You think, very not so objectively, that Mercy is flawed in her redesign, yet we have a lot of quite more qualified sources that does not say this. So, why are you right ? What makes you qualified to talk about a design of a hero, in a game mode, i know for a fact you haven´t delved in. You have never made game design for FPS with heroes. Neither have you shown extreme promise in utilizing the heroes in the game to such an extent your opinion really shows fundamental and logically sound statements in the core game.
That is what i am saying, you are literally saying here, that you are not objective, you are extremely biased towards the one thing that you enjoy, instead of focusing on all the aspects of the game. This makes you incredibly low in the hierarchy of who to listen to, when all you want is to talk about, what aspect of the game you delve into.
rofl.
This is ridiculous. Who are these qualified people? Like, you don’t think there’s other factors involved that might influence how they present their opinions? Maybe they’ve got vested interests? Maybe they’re just presenting the idea that they know what they’re talking about without actually having any understanding of design at all? You’re just citing “people” somewhere? Are they the league of extraordinary game designers?
Come on, be real…
I could list qualifications, but that’s just cringy. It’s the information that counts. People aren’t automatically correct because they happen to work at Blizzard. They are not perfect. If they were, then there would be no need for patches because the game would be perfect on day one.
Ofc complaints were a part of it, but not the sole reason for the rework. That’s how balancing process begins. Players state their concerns, devs investigate if it’s worth looking into. It’s not just mercy related.
Yes there are, but none of them revolve around failure or intentional loss of a fight.
The issue is that you insulted everyone who had a different opinion than yours, while demanding a decent debate. But we’re moving off topic, my bad.
Again we come to comparing mechanics of different hero class. Let’s go a step back to the previous comparison. Even if say, you were to prove that McCree players were using the same “hide and seek” strategy as mercy does, it would just prove that McCrees old ult is equally as bad at setup stage as mercys old rez. Which happened to be true at the time so his ult got a slight buff. You can compare the bad mechanic to any other bad mechanic and it will just point out that both are bad. Idle play and failure reward shouldn’t be a thing in a game such as overwatch.
In my opinion it was a bad mechanic because it revolved around failure of five people while the sixth was in hiding. If you didn’t do it, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t a thing, because clearly it was. I’ve seen it quite often and was asked of me often.
Absolutely true, that’s why they rely on the playerbase input in form of feedbacks or complaints. They aren’t perfect but they do have much more information and statistics than you or I do, it is in their best interest for the game to be appealing to the players, they have no hero bias, like you and I might have.
no, you don’t deserve constructive and thoughtful answers anymore. Feel free to look up our conversations. It’s been a one way effort and I won’t continue wasting much time to answer. You’re neither giving counter arguments nor being a fair “debator”.
You don’t bring anything to the table, and your “answers” are nothing but conceptual thoughts you have about yourself and the person you are talking to.
Now if a “not real squishy brain baby mercy hater” could tell you something about yourself : you are a delusional egoistical megalomaniac who resorts to belittle others instead of trying to have fair objective arguments.
See, I can “argue” like that too.