As an off tank main who always hopes we have at least a decent second tank on the team, I find it odd why people hate a comp with 3 tanks so much?
In plat/diamond, I hardly ever see GOATS. Maybe for a section of one game, every 10 games or so I’ll see a team actually run proper GOATS, but it’s rare.
I’m guessing it’s more popular among the pro scene? Why are so many against this comp?
Too many tanks. That’s why they hate it, they can’t pull off the ‘insane damage and ultimates’ DPS’s can pull off.
Insane survivability is pretty much what it comes down to. It feels like you can’t really do much against it, because everyone has so much health and heals for so much.
Because
It makes a whole class(damage) either underpowered or straight up obsolete. Don’t you love it when a GM DPS main streamer has to switch to Brigitte? I know I do.
It reduces the impact of individual play because you must stick with your group and do your role to the T. It also consists of mainly characters who require none or very little aim, Zenyatta being the only notable exception.
It makes every fight a drag. You need to concentrate so many resources on killing a single part of the goats you might as well farm ultimates and try to take take them out this way. So each fight becomes an ultimate race.
It solidifies how insanely broken the tank and support ultimates are. Zarya and Reinhardt can wipe out a team by themseleves. Zenyatta and Lucio can help prevent such wipes. Also funnily enough Reinhardt is the best counter to Reinhardt so it all connects to the other points - it makes the fights a drag and requires certain characters to ensure your team does not get wiped.
Its low skill, seen it many times. The enemy team is losing? Pick Brigitte, pick Reinhardt and Zarya, roll over the poor sods who decided to play Roadhog, Orisa or some DPS who cant kill quickly like Soldier.
It is extremely boring to watch.
It shows how quick Blizzard are in trying to please players who are not good at FPS games.
the issue with it it us that the same with all the other metas in the fact that it goes against the average solo que play style and the fact that characters that should be countering aren’t like mei,blizzards idea of beating it is by creating more tank busters instead instead of creating characters that are good at isolating opponents
It makes every DPS other than mei and fist USELESS. Its literally the same reason most DPS mains hate widowmaker and hanzo. They make every DPS useless! (wait no, fist just got pointlessly nerfed cuz people cry too much) useless
Because
It makes a whole class(damage) either underpowered or straight up obsolete. Don’t you love it when a GM DPS main streamer has to switch to Brigitte? I know I do.
It reduces the impact of individual play because you must stick with your group and do your role to the T. It also consists of mainly characters who require none or very little aim, Zenyatta being the only notable exception.
It makes every fight a drag. You need to concentrate so many resources on killing a single part of the goats you might as well farm ultimates and try to take take them out this way. So each fight becomes an ultimate race.
It solidifies how insanely broken the tank and support ultimates are. Zarya and Reinhardt can wipe out a team by themseleves. Zenyatta and Lucio can help prevent such wipes. Also funnily enough Reinhardt is the best counter to Reinhardt so it all connects to the other points - it makes the fights a drag and requires certain characters to ensure your team does not get wiped.
Its low skill, seen it many times. The enemy team is losing? Pick Brigitte, pick Reinhardt and Zarya, roll over the poor sods who decided to play Roadhog, Orisa or some DPS who cant kill quickly like Soldier.
It is extremely boring to watch.
It shows how quick Blizzard are in trying to please players who are not good at FPS games.
The meta of utilizing a quad tank comp has existed for long and essentially has always been broken, it essentially should be countered by 4 dps or similar but has no real counterplay except being smart and surviving.
The biggest problem with Goats is their area heals all stacking and D.va being a tank with insane burst a completely nullifying ability that has the ability to fly on a low cooldown. She singlehandedly makes the comp unable to be countered by high ground control and long range poke. She is the most picked character, who is consistently picked. She has been insanely problematic ever since matrix was added the way it is. She is the singlehandedly most countering hero in the game. She counters 80% if not more of all things in game.
I think this issue is just like any other meta. It’s a meta! Some like it, some hate it. Metas are never interesting, only the first time. After that, it gets stale and if a Meta is rather odd, in this case, GOATS in a game Tanks and Supports are the lesser picks, more people will complain because more people can’t play their current off-meta heroes.
The best and almost impossible thing Blizzard should do is either eliminate all metas or enable multiple metas at the same time. In a game where hero switching should be the core mechanic, a Meta that forces you to play one hero the whole time is deadly for the game designer.
Also, how did Bustar and Darkwaver have the almose same reponse?
I didn’t mind the dive meta, it was fun to watch and play. I’m a dps main so a meta that is entirely without dps is neither fun to watch or fun to play. Same if you are a tank main and the meta is entirely without tanks. One good thing about tanks being strong is that i see much more tanks and healers in my game, so I’m not against the current balance as long as I’m in plat and we don’t play goats. But I’m not going to watch OWL if it’s goats every game.
I see what everybody is saying. Having a comp with no DPS in it does get boring after a while. I guess the reason I haven’t come across GOATs much at my rank is because it rarely ever happens unless it’s a last minute clutch situation. I think the reason is because there’s just not as many tank mains or players efficient at playing tanks at this level, so a 2,2,2 is much more appealing to us.
We have the same response cause i liked all the points he made, i just added a few more, that was different. The reason why goats is such a problem for the game is, that it is a meta that can work and be effective at all ranks, dive couldn´t very well at low ranks. Outside of this the meta is one of the first to basically exclude and remove the ability for most people in the game to play their role (DPS), there is not even a single new DPS hero you could go to at least, to counter goats, which is even more problematic.
It is a comp that favours the least characters and players in the game and it is very unhealthy to have a whole role be useless, especially, when that role supports more than 50% of the playable characters.
My point isn’t that goats isn’t that bad. My point is that it is as problematic as any other meta.
Every meta is extremely unhealthy for the game because it discourages its core mechanic and it restricts players from playing heroes they like and are good at.
Goats should be a message to everyone that metas are a problem. Finally, there is a meta that hits around half of the playerbase. That slap on their face should make them realize that metas need to be gone. Goats has to be gone; Dive has to be gone; either every meta has to be gone or all metas have to be there at the same time.
In this utopian scenario, players have liberties in composition and strategy and they can win in their own way. However, this will almost never happen.
All metas are not the same. Dive was flashy and a pleasure to watch. Goats isn’t. Dive required a ton of teamwork and coordination to work. Goats doesn’t. Dive allowed plenty of characters to shine. Goats doesn’t.
Don’t try to simplify it as “its meta, thats why” .
Also one of the more reliable anti goats is the Doombra, which is a 222.
Time an emp after Lucio uses his soundbarrier and you’ll delete the shields, forcing Zen (who has 150 of his 200hp removed) to pop transcendence. Once that’s gone charge in and send sneaky Sombra and Doomfist to mop up the backline. If you’re good enough at this the Tanks will fall without the healing they need.
Thats rich. Nerfing Doomfist to the ground and still claiming that he is a counter.
Yet it still restricted players from playing their favourite hero because it’s off-meta. While I’d prefer a more liberal and teamwork-heavy meta like dive, it would be best to have no meta at all but that’s a dream that will never come true.
Which hero was oh so restricted during dive?
Good question, I don’t remember. Maybe dive was the best meta in terms of liberties in hero picks and compositions.
Though it would be a paradox because if no heroes get restricted, it wouldn’t be considered a meta, would it? Or maybe my definition of meta is wrong.
Thats because dive was a skill meta. For the best characters to work they needed a ton of practice. Similarly they were not invincible and could be countered by team effort and off-meta picks. Now even with Raodhog I feel completely helpless if there is a Brigitte/Renhardt/Zarya wall coming at me.
Valid points. I guess excluding a whole class isn’t ever going to be successful long term, even though in certain situations it seems super effective.