PVZ cry topic QQ

Hi people, came back after long brake. Switched from T to P.

cry starts

Is there any damn way to win vs zerg with same skill level ? I just dont see it possible. I can be better at every aspect of the game, i mean resources, army value, apm , bases. Doesnt matter. Owned all the time. My win rate is like 30 percent.

Everyone says air toss op ? How the fk i need to reach that if enemy scouts, just swarm and gg. Switch late game to air ? When ? because i have to make collosi, storms, archons just to try surviving this stupid matchup.

Oracle ? Not usable.
Trying to harras with phoenix ? gg, gonna get swarmed sooner or later.
Trying to harras with dts? Unless u do critical damage, gg, gonna get swarmed before u tech smth.
Trying to turtle? nope, u just cant.

Sometimes i stalk through my opponents w/l ratings, most zergs have like 60-70 win rate vs protoss. When my mmr drops low af, i win ez, check them, still more than 50 win rate for them.

So how the fk this matchup is played ? because half of ladder these days are zerg.

Hello there,

the easiest way to go into skytoss in the early game and be safe against “the swarm” is to build stargate before warpgate, with Oracle into Void Ray, after wrapgare finished you start instand +1 ship weapon. Then you build your third, take your 2 gases in your natural, build secound stargate and pump out void rays. Meanwhile you secure your third (if you get queen walked, don’t lose your oracle, so you can scout for it) and maybe your natural with cannons and batterys. After this you can go completly into skytoss with carriers and all that stuff or you go into mass gateways.
Its a pretty simply bo from Zest, he played it lately very often.

Or just do it old school and do a adapt glave build.

1 Like

i don’t know how you die or which lvl you play on so it’s hard to give notes :wink:

but here is what i see P players almost Always fail at:

  1. static defense;
    P static defense is amazing!. breaking 3 cannon and 2 shields take a significant investment from Z and it buys enough time to either move in a counter attack or get your force back to defend and it’s “only” like 650 mineral; so if you lose just 1 base 1 shield and 2 drones on counter attack or runby this setup already paid for itself;
    and better yet this functions even in super late game (though midgame double it and late game double it again)

i’ve only seen pro P like 2 times built up static defense of note, and both time it really heavily paid itself back;
though the low lvl defence is honestly better than nothing but unless you are hero lvl trying to make do with like 1 cannon and 1 shield are not doing much, it’s good and takes like 12 zerglings to deal with; but it’s lowballing it and only there to buy some time or stop those 4-6 zergling runby ^^

don’t be afraid of throwing up a LOT of batteries and cannons; you can always fall back on them in need and if it goes the distance of super late game they will be used to support the units in those last exchanges ^^

  1. pushing too aggressively or not pushing at all.
    P seems to want to either not micro out or want really noteworthy dmg.
    vs. Z the best you can do when you push early or mid and you see that round of unit comming up; simply retreat your entire army before the engage.

You need to remember your goal vs. Z, it is NOT to kill it. it is to slow it’s progression down.
as soon as 15 larva was spend on ‘bad tier’ units to defend, you did your dmg and can happily retreat and bunker up behind your defenses (as Z outside of the very best players, will almost always try to mass up an army to attack bc they know they are now 15 drones down and are holding 30+ supply in units that are useless in 5 minutes.

so do your push attacks; have some scout to check their production, the moment you see large unit production; Pull back and bunker up behind your defenses (if you see huge unit production; YEEER it gives you a good reason to build some more awesome defenses which WILL be good at every stated of the game; as P’s largest handicap mid and late is that their units can’t defend runby’s (but late game 1-2k mineral means very little, that’s only 2 runby of zealots that will likely do LESS than 500 mineral dmg each. having 10 cannons and 5 shields is Much better as it garantee the safety of that base, route and area.
even if they are Never used they did their job making Z keep away and letting your army stay other places and late game as said it’s ‘only’ 2x10 zealot runby.
and if they push with a large or tech heavy army enough to get through you got a lot of time to cut their retreat off, reinforce the defence or just go kill 2-3 bases/production etc. while he clear out the defence and maybe 1 base.

  1. Use Recall A LOT!!!
    like this is what i see all players top and low not do.
    lets be honest first; Recall is never good in a “my units are dead” situation, yes you can save like 4-6 units and you lose at least 2+ doing so (in early game, midgame its like 4+ and late game your entire army is dead while trying to recall).
    so don’t use this as a “i need to keep this ready for my escaped if things goes badly in a big fight”, instead think of it as "every 2 minutes i can go in with 6-10 units force Z to move, created troops, lose buildings, etc. and then recall before the Z units get to them.

as such every 2 minutes you can Force Z to produce or move enough units to counter like 2 immortals 8 zealots (this will take a significant force to stop them, so if you got scouting and know Z isn’t investing at Least 15 supply army to counter it; just keep pushing and killing and when you see something your not 100% sure the immortals will survive to recall everything; or if they produce a lot of units to counter just recall immediately and make rdy for the defense, hide behind those statics :wink:

  1. Setup defence before third or forth nexus;
    i see a lot of P not bringing static defence up before bases has been denied for the third time;
    it is far better to set pylon, set 2-3 cannons and 2 shields (as said that’s like 650 minerals; +nexus=1050, but when we are talking third expansion or especially forth, an extra 650minerals are not hard to have ready and the time it takes will not give much of a lead to Z you can even plan it as part of your push time for third base if you feel it is needed)
    and even without a nexus build you now secured that route and area against small runby’s (mid game even against smell medium runby up to around 10+,properly even 15, supply of Z units which in early and even in early-mid game 15 sup is easily like 1/4 to half your army :stuck_out_tongue: )

  2. NLO=Never Lose Oracle’s
    this is actually for everyone as well, though more relevant at higher play;
    Never lose your oracle’s, you want that revelation to constantly be either on the Z army or their hatches (even if on an outer hatch, even Serral is not removing that hatch from his hatchery group key and whenever something is built you will know if Z is building eco or army).
    the dmg an oracle do even if you get 3-4 drones with your first oracle; if you lose it (and you will if this aggressive with it) it is not worth it imo;
    it slows the Z yer, but mostly you show them to force queens and spores which already slow the zerg with 3 drones for each queen and 1 drone for each spore; you don’t need to do anything else with it.

and even as low as plat, taking your oracle and tagging the outer most base with revelation everytime it is running out is pretty durable (hotkey oracle, click revelation, click outer most point to hit hatch, shift move click back to safety in your base; do other things and 99% of the time your oracle is completely safe even if you dont look at it after that.

so constantly revelation; midgame you should have 2-3 oracles to keep this up and they are ONLY for revelations, like memba NLO :wink:
IF you are losing in your base, sneaky unexpected stasis fields can turn the tides when that 1 immortal or 1 collos spawn and 15+ zerglings or 8+ roaches runs to kill it and like half of them is caught in stasis; also they will likely block the route so even if it is 30z or 15r that 1 immortal or 1 collos can either do a lot of dmg or have time to get recalled to your other base (i assume when you are losing this big and bases are pressured you haven’t had time to do the recall harass the last 2 minutes :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

  1. Produce probes Always.
    like this is more like an AlphaStar and reynor thing; like unless you are REALLY good like hero good, you will lose a lot of probes, even when you do static defenses (although a lot less), constantly producing probes means that even if you are at 80 probes on 3 bases its fine, either you got the probes now to take forth or that bane drop you didn’t see which killed 16 workers and ended the game for you, actually it matter little they did 700 mineral dmg with 4 banes and a droplord =425 minerals and 125 gas used to do so very worth that loss for P, the problem is loss of mining time now, but you already have those Extra 16 probes which instantly starts mining and their PERFECT harass was turned into a failure where they lost as more resource than they killed; bc gas matters much more at this point in the game).

so Don’t be afraid of overproducing drones. (and as low tier player, just lots of static defenses and continual drone production won’t fail you) ^^
you are producing probes like non-stop until the third base fully filled anyway and at that juncture, the mineral for drones is not noteworthy ^^

7: DT’s are actually better defensive than offensive vs. zerg.
in the vast majority of cases Z will not bring an overseer early, mid or late mid game; only in late games they bring them with their army (unless they are forced by invis harass) and even 1 DT in defence can do amazing amount of dmg, its also a very good scout like an observer that can teleport mid/late game if spotted; (honestly i do not understand why people use observers for map vision over on hold commanded DT’s which can be utilized for so much more as well).

also memba DT’s are Not to be thrown away on harass.
you see all those matches where DT is send in and then detection comes after like 10 seconds and they lose 2-3 DT’s?
yer those losses are completely unnessesary; send your DT back before detection comes, Don’t throw them away; if there is too much detection use them for defense or observers around the map; or make archon and integrated into your army.

but Never throw those 150 gas away because you use them like zealots=zero micro or attention needed :wink:

8: transport juggling;
so we all seen how powerful 2 immortals and a pris can be :wink:
same as the Recall tactic; you fly in destroy a bunch of queens, drones, and even a tech structure or two if they don’t respond fast enough; and then you recall (you done your job, you force anti-air and enough ground to deal with immortal tech, you know where Z is heading now and their silly muta’s are not a danger for your static defence; Which ofc you setup at this point of mid/late mid game RIIIGHT?? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


well i gotta go but hope this helps a bit (if you want build, cheese etc. there are tons of sources for that so go nuts :smiley: :smiley: )