1 week after patch - my own thoughts - feel free to put yours as well

Community General Discussion
1

I already uninstalled the game, there is nothing specific to do. Same gear grind with same progress idea. Weekly quests that can be finished within 2 hours first reset day. Some mythic+ for pve and one raid a week for progress. PvP is the same as well, nothing new to spark new life into game.

It is incredible how new MMOs seem to get it, but WoW lacks ideas and creativity to make true MMORPG experience. Sadly WoW players will not understand me, because they only focus on seasonal progress with same instanced competitive content (to play this game like the usual game like dota 2 or lobby based pvp/pve game). Seriosuly though, how other new MMORPGs seem to understand what type of genre this is. Every new MMORPG makes something unique and very social-like. If you compare open world vibe in any modern mmorpg, there are things to be done and many aspects that make this genre unique, while in WoW you canā€™t really say that is true. In WoW there are things to be done you will say, but it is both time-gated and fast, without any form of danger in open world and it feels just too fast, especially since economy is different and you cannot even farm solo anymore, things got too complicated and narrow-minded. 2 hours of gameplay for a week of open world content is not much to me, especially how fast it moves so you can finish gearing within 3 weeks doing that kind of content. (for that ilvl I suppose)

I donā€™t know for many of you, but I really think I will drop wow for good after this saga of expansions end, and first chapter of wow is finished. To me it seems like a good time to quit this game, because I will feel good that I did not quit this game without completion of one story. It is still dear to me, but there is nothing that truly inspire me to play more. I crave for true MMORPG aspects. I learnt from Vanilla classic that you can have much more quality time in open world, doing various things that will increase the immersion your time with more relaxed pace and you can learn patience and other things as well, it is quality time indeed. With modern WoW I just canā€™t have this anymore, everything seems too fast and it does not feel like some laidback immersive game.

It will sound stupid to many of you, but main form of content in vanilla to me was going in open world and farming materials. There are 30-40 farming spots in vanilla, due to sheer amount of zones and areas. Every spot was unique and most of the time you would meet other players farming as well. Though I played on pvp server I also had good amount of action from competing vs other players in more relaxed way than arenas in retail for example. This would make my day filled with relaxed vibe, full of immersion and after full day of farming and pvping, I would end it very satisfied, as I achieved something that day. For example economy was different as well, it was meaningful to carry some items that cost 20-30 gold per item, like dust or some flasks/potions. If you spent 150-250 gold that day on farming due to using various consumables to win fights, you earned maybe 350-500 gold so you ended up feeling satisfied, because you spent that much gold and earned something as well. This level of immersion is unmatched with any other mmorpg on the market honestly, but retail is even worse than many other modern/older mmorpgs I must tell you that.

If you ever cared about such things, you will be known as true mmorpg enjoyer. Although other people can enjoy other aspects of mmorpgs, they will never be considered to me as true mmorpg enjoyer, because they havenā€™t ever played their mmo to the fullest. They maybe experienced one side of this genre, but they never were complete.

WoW to be is over for this year. I will return during pre-patch to finish other side-quests and what not, but I just wanted to let devs know what I think about this game. Maybe it is time to consider changing open world design, because I donā€™t believe this will serve for good.

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And you thought the 11.2 patch was going to change, what has been the norm forā€¦ many many many years?

I want to play devilā€™s advocate hereā€¦ but can you name those MMOs that youā€™re referring too?

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Recycled content. Hard skip for me. Itā€™s really surprising that people get excited about new seasons. 4 dungeons we already got to play this expansion, 4 recycled dungeon from previous expansions. Cool new raid but thatā€™s about it. Very cool season ngl frfr

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Chrono Odyssey, Archeage Chronicles are two that will be playable next year. Very sandboxy themed in open world, full of crafting/gathering opportunities among other systems like bounty hunting and immersive events that pop up in open world - these are similar to World Quest, but the vibe is different, which I was talking about. It is not about kill x number of mobs that you can finish in 5min, itā€™s actually immersive and has a story development of original main story.

New World is the most recent that captured similar to old traditional mmorpgs that had sandboxy vibe in open world, full of opportunities to immerse yourself. I played it more than 600 hours, but I never could fully get to it due to how bad I am in PvP, and PvE there is not much to be done.

I did not say that these modern mmos have everything figured out, but at least their open world design is similar to old-school mmos that captured this immersive vibe through various ā€˜ā€˜random to beā€™ā€™ systems.

WoW has economy as well, donā€™t get me wrong, but the difference between WoW and these newer MMOs is that in WoW, you have 2 farming spots and it is being done as if devs are mocking players. Imagine sitting on 1 spot AOEing mobs and pulling with hyper rush mode emotions built in (or not), it still doesnā€™t matter. Compare this kind of farming vs vanilla wow, with 20-30 various farms and all occur to be random and relaxing, immersive as well. Newer action combat MMOs have captured this sense of danger and immersive vibe as well, as well as being relaxing, due to how you kill these mobs or the ways you farm materials. If some mmo releases with this kind of vibe, and if I can play pvp good as well, then I donā€™t see myself playing wow anymore. Atm I am willing to play wow for 2 weeks every patch/release, but if some new mmos come out and if I get good at it and I figure it out for pvp, then WoW is no longer interested to me.

Devs should think about this, because this has become big problem and a hole that wow has in its design philosophy. It is made for ultra casuals that play 2 hours a week, obviously these players care about end results as well (cosmetics,mounts etc), that they can obtain during patch by completing content for 2-3h a week, and also it is made for ultra sweat tryhards that want to push parses and play the best kind of content (again for end results).

There is no point of me replying to you if you canā€™t understand what I mean. Basically if they return the vibe of preparing yourself to play casual content like open world PvP with much better economy system, if they return this vibe, then I believe WoW will be unmatched again. As I said, I am just waiting for new replacement, but devs should strive for the best, as currently, they have one of the biggest mmo communities, and they should not settle for this what retail became.

5

Compared to Goblin patch this patch feels quite meh not gonna lie i loved the undermine it actually felt fun place to be and play.

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[Oof meme entered here]

You understand, those 2 MMOs that youā€™ve mentioned will be some of THE worst when it comes to Pay2Win features. Youā€™re talking about the one & only Kakao Games!

Iā€™ll give them a try, but I have a feeling the playerbase will end up like New Worldā€™s currently playerbase, which will see below!

New World, pretty much dead, has a max of 10,000 players total (all regions). Also, if you played it, you would know that the game is extremely stale and nothing to do, once youā€™ve done the content and got your itemsā€¦ just like many other games out there ;)ā€¦ also itā€™s Amazon Gamesā€¦ donā€™t need to say more there :stuck_out_tongue:

I just feel youā€™re still very inexperienced when it comes to playing MMORPGs. I can think of many old school MMOs, which were miles better than World of Warcraft. However, Iā€™m sorry to tell you Kottembeersk, WoW is still THE best MMO out there in terms of the amount of things you can do.

It does matter if the game is or isnā€™t a sandbox, no other MMO will come close to WoW for the next several years.

You have just described every single MMO that has been made and will be made in the future. This formula never changes! They ALL have go kill x number mob quests, they all have somewhat a good story lineā€¦ if they put the effort in.

True 11.2 is very lack luster.

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Wasnā€™t that the meme MMORPG that was considered a scam for long time and is still failing so far?

ArcheAge had its re-launch already and horribly failed.

While the games have some decent ideas, they all failed to execute properly.
So when you say WoW devs do it wrong, you should mention a game that does it right but unfortunately there is none.

BDO did great for years but they have chosen money over their own vision.

While I would love to see a MMORPG like that, it remains an unfortunate truth that those games failed and very basic stuff already.

Yes and thatā€™s what all the new MMORPGs did as well. Or recycled ones like ArcheAge and it failed because you canā€™t combine both aspects. You canā€™t please the casuals and the MMORPG veterans at the same time.

8

EDA is an entirely new dungeon?

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WoW playerbase loves to talk about MMORPG and creativity while completely refusing to socilize, participate in any RP, events, immerse into the game and all they do is minmax and grind.
Ironic thing is majority of wow community shame the mmorpg nature of the game and players who indulge in it while burning themselves out.

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I would not agree with anything you have said. NW has thousands hours of content first of all, and second, when you do that, u end up having nothing to do. In WoW actually you can do everything needed for progression within 5-6 weeks. You could argue you have many old achievements and collectables to collect, but NW is new game and of course it canā€™t have that amount of content.

By looking only at important bits, you have in NW: all professions leveled and maxed so you can craft bis gear, get multiple gear sets for each combination of weapons (this can go up to 10-12 sets honestly - 1 bis item is around 70-100k gold and you can casually farm up to 2,5k-3k per hour - 5 armor, 3 accesories, 2 weapons combined into 10 variations at least). When you complete this among farming artifacts, you end up having way more things to do than WoW.

But no matter what, still, the way things are done in NW are different than retail WoW. If you compared vanilla WoW then I would agree that there is no better mmorpg.

For other 2 mmos, p2w or not, still, companies do not have as big p2w as before. You still can get every bis item without paying real money, it just takes time and effort, but the way you do it is actually completely different vibe than retail WoW currently has.

I donā€™t know if you are still with me, but it is clear to me that any of these 3 mmos can give you completely different vibe than retail WoW - immersion and ā€˜ā€˜not to be seen as randomā€™ā€™ systems in open world. Things to do that take effort and focus, unlike WoW WQs or any type of WoW retail open world content, these things are what I am talking, and these things create different vibe than WoW.

I am on point where I am utterly bored playing similar content (if not the same - PVP) for years and years. There is nothing fresh about this system that they are giving with each season. I donā€™t know much about your playstyle, but you give me vibe of a person that got too comfortable with his/her game and just canā€™t see beyond it. I really believe that people like you can play WoW endlessly even in next life, just PVPing and doing m+ and raids. To me it is nonsense, I like fresh things or it gets repetitive and stale.

Compare the thrill of going into BRD or some other dungeon, where dungeons were actually real adventure and not system of 3-5 bosses and trash pull in between - with similar mechanics because letā€™s be honest, they literally are dying to create something new mechanic wise, they canā€™t think of anything, they are barely making things a little bit more fresh.

This thrill I can get only from new fresh MMORPGs. I understand you and I am not like that anymore. I just canā€™t bore myself with same repetitive things that I did over the course of 17+ years.

11

See this is where a lot of things are going to differ, so I will try my best to explain it.

All right, so first of all, New World having thousands of hours of content? This is a lie to begin with. Iā€™ve spent over 1000 hours within New World from my personal experience, and I can tell you that well over 80% of that was spent grinding to get a piece of gear, or to level up the weapon skills & PvP (which is a repetitive piece of content).

But when it comes to story content from the beginning to the end, it is, I would say a week to two weeks worth of content.

This again is going to be something that is down to personal preference in terms of which type of profession system that you like in any game. The way youā€™ve described it about how you can do XY&Z and earned this amount and that amount and get this accessory and get this weapon combination, thatā€™s something that can be done in any game. Albion Online, for example, in my opinion, has a great crafting system and a great gathering system compared to New World.

So you say that New World with its crafting and its gathering, you have far much more to do than what you do in World of Warcraft? Well, thatā€™s going to be a given because the crafting system in WoW hasnā€™t really changed much in the 20 years that itā€™s been made. So if they were to retroactively create a brand-new system, in World of Warcraft related to the crafting system, they would pretty much alienate a lot of people who like the crafting as it is. So I would say based upon the current active player base in World of Warcraft, there is maybe 50 to 60 times more players who specifically craft for fun in WoW, than the entire player base of New World.

So, what is this vibe that youā€™re talking about? Chrono Odyssey, Archage, Wildstar, Throne & Liberity, Runecape, Final Fantasy and more, all do the exact same system with an RNG based system. So, whatā€™s the difference there? Also, when it comes to pay to win like itā€™s done by Kakao games, that developer is one of the most predatory devs out there. When it came paid to win, for an example (there are more to mention) you could pay real money to buy land in the game which gave you an advantage of other people. So, it seems that you have done little to no research regarding the developer behind those games. So, my personal recommendation is that you take a step back from the forums and investigate that developer and how bad they are regarding their pay to win practises.

I would really like to know what are the MMOs you have put the time and effort into. because there are those games. Iā€™m an old school MMO player, I love the difficulty, I love the grind. But thatā€™s no longer a thing because nowadays people want instant gratification. They want to be able to log in and complete something within 30 minutes because they have a family to deal with. They have a job that they must go too and deal with as well.

What youā€™re asking for is never going to exist anymore.

To be honest, you will never get the thrill that you once had when World of Warcraft came out, for example. I will never get the thrill that I had when I played Dark Age of Camelot for the first time in how many hours, months, years I sunk into that game because in my opinion, that is still the best MMO of all time.

Do is, if you have lost the urge to enjoy a game, then maybe playing Mmos is no longer a thing that you personally will find enjoyable anymore. There are many other genres out there. There are many other games out there which you could dip your toe into to see if you enjoy it.

But I can tell you straight away that the games that you mentioned earlier, they may, they may fill that void for a few days until you see the repetitiveness that they will also bring. Games that you play now, theyā€™re bringing out remastered versions because. The developers or publishers canā€™t create original ideas anymore because theyā€™re too afraid to offend someone because they show a bit of cleavage or that they have someone whoā€™s dark skinned or wonder it may be that quarter somewhere, defensive mannerisms which people want to cancel that person because of it.

Just remember, this is a hobby, itā€™s not meant to be a way of life. If the hobby becomes boring, find another hobby.

I know the way all this comes across, the way Iā€™ve typed it out seems very passive aggressive. I am naturally a passive aggressive person, but Iā€™m not actually aiming to insult you. Iā€™m just basically speaking how I think and so this is how it comes out.

12

Honestly I feel like playing from the start of the patch is a waste of time. I skipped the entire S1 and came back in the middle of the S2 and it took me little to no time to get a bunch of characters geared and tiered because of all the catchup bs.

However playing during the start of the patch is just an awful drag.

13

I dislike shadowlands theme and dungeons.
It breaks my immersion of tww like i enjoyed s1,2 and all of a sudden im in space fighting void lord and my hub is tazavesh actually heh?
But m+ is fun pvp gonna be fun this season so im gonna play.
And i always enjoy new gear progression iā€™m not clingy to gear like it needs to stay the same for a whole expansion

14

Pretty sure everyting he describes is rather issue of apathy created by Wow seasonality. Ofc complaning about gearing is bit nonsense in mmorpg. But that issue is rooted of game being seasonal treadmill which create this type feelings.

WoW is in bad state where it doesnt matter what type of content they will throw on players. As long as game will be seasonl this game will never be fun to play.

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Campaign ok until bee, bee, bee, bee, what a rubish.

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Iā€™ve cleared the raid, and been spamming M+.

Plenty to do.

However, I stopped doing the Story quest line. I found it really boring because I donā€™t like Alleria or Xalā€™atath. Both are boring characters.

Gameplay is in a good place at the moment. Manaforge Omega is the best raid for a long time.

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well for me its just pvp and tmog-farming- and finding botts-exploiters and rmt groups to ban.

i like the new pvp items a lot.

but the karesh zone could be way way way better and sadly went there for few hours and left,

overall i dont feel the soul of world of warcraft anymore.

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It plays like an ARPG Season to me. Itā€™s essentially Diablo IV.

The first two weeks are just a rush out the gate to do all thatā€™s new ā€“ questing, gearing, delving, raiding, whatever. Itā€™s almost a stimulus overload with how much stuff there initially is to do and how everything feels super rewarding.

And then in the following two weeks the game settles into its routine gameplay - itā€™s the core progression goals being ticked off and your base quality of gear being acquired.

And then youā€™re kind of done. Iā€™m kind of done. In Diablo IV this is where Iā€™ve finished my Seasonal Journey, reached the end of my Battle Pass, and done the new questline and progressed my character sufficiently through all the content.
And itā€™s the same in WoW. In a few weeks Iā€™ll have done all the quests, progressed most of the content to the degree I care to, and gotten through most of the gear rush.

That which lies on the other side of that initial month of gameplay is the hardcore grind. Thatā€™s the Diablo IV players who keep playing to get every Ancestral item they can get their hands on. Itā€™s the WoW players who aim for BiS gear or who obsess over collecting stuff or farming achievements. Itā€™s the gameplay stretch where you put a lot of time and effort into the game and get very little out of it in return.

I usually stop there. I donā€™t have the time and inclination for that kind of gaming anymore.

But! Blizzard are clever bastards, so theyā€™ll be ready with the next patch, Legion Remix, Housing, events, whatever, to keep people like myself sticking with the game anyway. It sometimes works. Probably this time.

But yeah, itā€™s a Seasonal game now, through and through. It is not an MMORPG experience anymore. Itā€™s an ARPG. MMO-Lite perhaps.
Approach it as such and enjoy that initial horn of plenty that a Season start offers, and I think itā€™s a compelling gameplay experience, even if it somewhat quickly loses steam.

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Yeah, honestly, I wish they had horizontal progression like in gw2 and just had cool cosmetics as rewards. it would also make RWF much more interesting as more guilds could participate vs the guids who can afford buy the splitsā€¦ Would be really fun to watch actually

About the patch, I do not like the new zone, but the dungeons are kinda fun for me, as I did not play much in SL and I like SL dungeons/zones/aesthetic. I do not mind much all the slop in wow as I can just go play something else inbetween(gw2/gwent), it was more hurtul when I treated wow as the only game I play. But alsoā€¦ I think I would not pay for this sub fee if I did not had gold

I also started to like delves, I just wish they had more levels/rewards for them

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The game formula of wow definitely needs a shake up. Legion: Remix canā€™t come soon enough.

However, I did 7/8 normal raid so far, cleared a few dungeons, and did the main story. It was fine, I enjoyed it, but I donā€™t think personally, that the game has a lot of replayability after a certain point. I did all +10s last season on all 3 roles, and I donā€™t think, I will feel like doing it again, because itā€™s just gonna be the same experience again.

Something I will very likely play is Legion: Remix though, because thatā€™s a mixture between Diablo 4 and wow, and I happen to have enjoyed both games a lot.