It seems unlikely that we’ll see Mythic team size move away from the static 20. They do this for balancing. The meta on ten man would be awful.
Normal and Heroic do flex making it easier to bring varying team sizes. However whatever the static number is, you’ll always need a bigger team than you have space to accomodate holidays, sickness and general absences etc.
And that is why you need levels like M+.
If by any chance on a particular boss you cant balance it perfectly, no issues. The players just reduce level or increase it. Depending on boss and raid size.
DONE. The game balances itself.
They could at-least do this with Heroic for those of us that cannot commit to a Mythic roster have a longer season. Longer than 3 weeks at-least.
You dont underatand it at all. 20 man raid can have mechanics what 10 man cant have. Why? Becouse you have enough players in raid to make those mechanics possible to implement. Also you have higher variety of classes which allows for aditional complexity. You cant reduce mythic to 10 man becouse some mechanis would simple never work on 10 man. Heroic and normal are alredy super dull becouse of this fact which is reason why so many guilds clear them on day 1.
I do understand.
And maybe I was overly simplistic with my suggestions.
This is what I mean by Flex: It does not have to be between 10 and 30 people. It can be between 18 and 22 for example.
That would already be enough.
This is what I mean by M+ levels: Officially, there are 4 difficulties. In practice there are only 2: Dumb easy. Fun but way to compromising. Nothing in between.
And im sure you can invent difficulties between heroic and mythic. Flex too.
In any case. You might agree or not with this flex + mythic levels. It still does not change the fact that limiting mythic to 20 people exactly, justified or not, is the main impediment for a greater degree of participation in mythic level raiding.
Heck no! That would mean my armor wouldn’t have existed in the first place.
Mythic Raiding definitely should exist. It is meant for the best of the best. And that is fine to me.
Normies like you and me can get the “awesome stuff” after the new DLC comes out and the once “new raids” become “old raids”.
What we could argue about tho is adding “challenge modes” that extend the regular Mythic Raiding group sizes to 20 and 10 players per group, meaning MUCH MORE responsibility by the individual player with additional mechanics or drawbakcs, making the 40 man mythic raiding the more “relaxed” version of it.
People with the skill but smaller numbers then can play said “challenge modes” with smaller groups without devaluing the 40-player raid groups that much because the smaller ones are even harder from the individual perspective.
I get the transmog argument and I like farming old raid for mogs, Nighthold has some lovely sets.
But they could give the current Mythic mogs to 25 HC and the current Heroic mogs to 10 HC.
We’d be in the same positition. We’d get the same mogs in 2 or 3 expansions time.
It just seems like the 20 man Mythic is too logistically off-putting for a lot of guilds. So having 10 and 25 Difficult raiding seems like a reasonable approach. The current Heroic model isn’t prestigious nor challenging enough for a lot of organised guilds but just not feasible logistically.
Ye its not going to work like that mate. At all. You cant balance a flex difficulty. Normal and Heroic prove this. And for Mythic it will be the same as HC and Norm but even worse because unlike HC and Normal its not that forgiving so pugs/guilds will go with Setup X.
Because why would you go with 13 people that make fight X pretty much impossible if you could go with 12 and just facestomp it.
They wont make Mythic flex. At best they will remove 20man raiding and settle with 15man.
As for the specs: People can already play pretty much the specs they want to play. Sure the meta specs make it easier but most guilds take what they get, not what they want and its rarely if ever a spec thats the reason why the boss doesnt go down.
As for template: How about no? Blizzard had proven, several times, that they dont know jackpoop about classes/specs in combination with templates.
Its not. Its people actually willing to invest the required time over a longer period of time. You want a stable setup and not deal with attendance issues every other raid. You would run into the same issues with flex (especially if a healer goes missing. Or a DPS whos CDs are important either defensively or offensively) because its not as easy as “lets just go with 1 guy less”.
Nah, uta is 100% right on this.
For mythic I agree and the removal of the outdated lockout. Let players pug Mythic if they want to.
Because you have 13 ppl online and you don’t want to bench your friends? And for “why would we go with 16 when 20 is easier?”, because that’s how many people could show up and the alternative currently is logging off and doing something else.
Aside from a tiny portion of prog raiders nobody cares about the miniscule scaling imbalances and that could be solved by making mythic flexible only after a couple of months or when hall of fame is full.
Unfortunately we’re not children anymore and the rest of the game is boring as toast so if people can’t raid they quit, and if they schedule some WoW time for themselves and we end up being 19 online then they also quit.
The point is, and that will happen as it still happens now and has happened in the past, that people will go with the easier setup over the impossible one.
Every Mythic raider is a progress raider. And “miniscule scaling imbalance”? Spoken like somebody who has defacto no idea about raiding and its history.
Blizzard hasnt fixed balance issues in regards of setup successfully since ever.
Then quit. Or go heroic/normal. You will also run into the same issues even with flex as stated above. Just because its flex it wont suddenly make your issues disappear. Its astonishing how little you people know about mythic raiding its borderline hilarious.
It would, since that’s literally the purpose of flexible raiding, to give a buffer for your roster size.
You’re obviously not in the leadership of your guild since you only know about the “learn tacs and push buttons” aspect of raiding, so you have no idea how much effort (and sociopathic behavior) is involved in maintaining a mythic roster.
And to flip the table of your elitism. My suggestion would only be applied months into each raid tier, so if you’re still progressing at that point then I’ll just say you’re not a true progression guild and these imbalances won’t affect you since you’re not playing on a level where it matters.
Well. Blizzard is not really good at “balancing” now thats obvious to everyone.
Say a guild with 14 people.
Boss A recomended group size: 10 to faceroll mechanics. Dang, guess we need to bench 4 folks eh?
Boss B recomended group size: 20+, more dps to “dilute” the mechanics the better. Dang, so we need to pug more people for the kill?
And it wouldn’t affect just the “tryhards” 0.1% but any guild which attempts mythic raiding since they obviously read and prepare based on general guides.
It wouldn’t affect the tryhards at all because I’m not suggesting to implement it right at the start of each tier but only once the hall of fame is done. Anyone still raiding at that point just wants cutting edge.
Having options is better than letting half the mythic guilds disband between tiers. But I’m sure you’re right, after all this isn’t a video game, there’s stakes at risk like world hunger and wrecking the global economy.
I am not really sure what you are getting at? Or your general point for that matter.
Everyguild will always look for more efficent ways to reach their goals. Even on HC, some end bosses, there are guilds which reduce player ammounts if they feel like 30(for example) is beeing too much of a cluster**** and think going with less people will be easier.
So if some guide will say “the easiest way to do boss X is with 10 people” then 14-16 person guild willl contemplate of benching folks cause “why make it harder?”. So if you are campaigning for easier CE to save some guilds from completely disbanding then such scenarios will be absolutely counterproductive to what you are aiming for.
Sorry, didn’t know you’re the spokesperson for the entire raiding community.
If you would bench people just to make the fight easier, then your guild isn’t a guild. It’s just a raid group that doesn’t disband when you log off.
Its common sense expectation? If a person feels ill or sick, then its not surprising to expect that they will seek medical advice. I dont need to make a mass-survery to “prove it”?
I am not sure in what guilds you where or are. But for my guild experience, it was absolutely normal if the progressing for exmaple on HC boss and if the leader felt that that for a progression kill, you need to shed some numbers to make it easier then so be it. With the chances to rotate people for everyone to get the kill. At least as I far noticed, nobody batted an eye about it.
3rd. Whats with this passive-aggresive responses? I am only offering my opinion on the matter. I got no personal vendetta against you or anything. 
No, please just no. That’s the why I consider raiding is much much better then M+. It has ultimate common endgoal. A point when everyone could say - “we reached it”. No strings attached, no additional prestige, no some indefinite scaling, no scoreboard. Plain and simple peak - and you reach it or not. And when you reach it, you truly feel you’ve done it. You’ve finished the current tier.
Kinda agree with this one. Same as I dont want m+ to become a regular off-the mill “5-man raid”, I also wouldn’t want raids to become raids+.
And I play both content as well.
Dismissing one’s suggestion based on assumptions and contradictions isn’t the embodiment of politeness, I responded in kind.
You and Kretías are describing a level of elitism that only defines groups which get CE in the first month or two, not mythic raiding in general.
If mythic becomes flexible after that (even if they purposefully scale it to be harder for less than 20 players) it still saves guilds and retains a large chunk of the raiding audience.
I understand if you personally dislike it for whatever reason, just don’t pretend it’s a logical one.