10 man raiding
Please
NO.
Its already in place. You can 10 man heroic raids. Or 11 man if your buddy tags along.
What needs to happen is flex mythic raiding. Thats what needs to happen.
5 Likes
I think Mythic should be 40 man raids. It should be a RWF event only. No gear rewards, just titles, tabards and achievements.
Heroic raiding should have 10 and 25 man version. They should be tuned closer to current Mythic and be the aspirational form of raiding.
Normal should be flex for more casual guilds.
Though I’m probably in a lunatic fringe with this opinion. I see a place for easier raiding (Normal) and Harder Raiding (Heroic), not sure what the purpose of Mythic is outside of RWF.
2 Likes
Yes you are. Sorry to be honest.
THE most challenging aspect of raiding. The #1 guild buster is logistics.
You have to have X amount of people online in order to raid. You need things like benches, be continuously recruiting and also meet peoples expectations.
People commit seriously X hours of their life to the game, with punishment of being kicked out of the roster if they don’t. So if they spend too much time in the bench, or don’t raid, or don’t get gear or whatever… its drama.
So. Fixing “40 man raids” or “10 and 25 man raids” as in EXACTLY 40, 10 and 25… not 39, 11 or 24… is a big mistake IMO.
6 Likes
If you’re going to two sizes there’s no reason not to go flexible. 40 man raiding is a zoo, and making it only available to literally a handful of guilds is like…what the hell?
Mythic raids should be flexible after the hall of fame is filled or ~ 2 months into the tier. Any guild still progressing at that point is just going for CE.
In War Within mythic will be cross realm from day 1 so server rank will disappear. At that point no guild will say:
“darn, we could’ve been world 269 but we only got 293 because blizz made mythic flex and the scaling favored guilds that went with 13 people”.
But does it HAVE to be?
Having Normal as Flex and then two options for hard mode should offer reasonable tolerance on logistics. Guilds attempting truly challenging content should be organised enough to muster with one of those teams. Casual guilds are less organised and so having Flex for Normal seems appropriate.
Fixing the size is the only way to properly tune a challenging piece of content.
Mythic teams are basically profession esports now and so finding 40 players shouldn’t be beyond them. This should make for a more epic battle for the audience for RWF.
10 and 25 should be offer enough options for organised guilds doing the challenging content.
Like 4 of them are, across the entire world. There are thousands of guilds that raid 4-12 hours a week on fixed evenings and just play the game the same as anyone else that also do mythic that would be forced out by this logic.
For guilds doing mythic at any level, be that the RWF or playing 6 hours a week with competent players, heroic falls over in the first week of the tier.
1 Like
Absolute. Total. Nonsense.
Holy Cow.
“If you want to play on a high level you should deal with predatory recruiting and abusing psychology to make people stick around even if they’re benched and literally cannot play the game they’ve subbed to”.
Look. Its not about skill or level.
Let me show you an example: my guild. Organized guild. But were all 30+ people… with kids and wifes and stuff like that. Any one of us has the skill to raid in mythic.
We just CANNOT commit X days of our life to a Mythic Raiding guild. We just cant.
So what do we do? We do heroic.
What has happened so far since SL? First month raid is clear. Raiding is over. We do M+.
Just think about that for a minute. Who will raid Heroic and Mythic? People with skill and love for difficult content? Or people with a lot of free time?
You tell me.
Make levels infinitely scalable like M+. No matter how much you can cheese a boss by being 10 or 30 instead of 20, eventually you will reach a point where things begin to 1shot you, or no amount of DPS on the planet can make you kill the boss before enrage timer.
DONE.
1 Like
Which is why I said Heroic should be tuned closer to Mythic. It should be the aspirational mode for those seeking challenging raiding.
Heroic seems to have little purpose in the game, it’s too hard for casual guilds and too easy for organised guilds.
We’d be talking orders of magnitude more difficult then.
They fixed that for M+.
Infinite scaling. Choose your level that best suits your guild. Period.
And flex. DONE.
Now the pros can do the raid +30 and casuals the raid +5. And you, well +22 or something.
DONE.
1 Like
The prestige value of progression raiding comes from having beaten the content at the highest level, so making it infinite (and segmenting it into 30 levels) doesn’t make much sense.
If the impact of RWF becomes detrimental to the game, just make it a separate competition like MDI and give them pre-geared characters.
They can choose guilds based on an entry fee even, it’s basically how it is right now since only a select few can afford to no-life 50 split runs or play 20 hours a day for two weeks.
To me RWF is like Formula 1. It’s somewhat entertaining to watch but I have no desire to sit in the car, nor do I care who sits in it.
1 Like
There is a lot of prestige going on in M+ when you see people complete dungeons on 30+. In S2, when I occasionally saw someone with a timed 31+… I just sat there in awe.
Dont see why you would loose prestige for Raiding.
1 Like
Just speaking for myself but the main reason I don’t play diablo’s rift system (or M+) is because I need a clear goal if I’m going to engage in something that takes so much effort. Mythic raiding right now is a fixed challenge, M+ is an endless grind.
2 Likes
I dont see it that way. Theoretically, I agree with you. But in practice this is what I see:
Mythic Progression = wipe 200 times on one boss until you kill it. Or dont kill it. That is the maximum skill your guild can offer: Wiping millions of times on the same boss until season ends, or blizz nerfs it.
And dont forget farm runs to gear up people… and farming M+ for that BiS trinket or whatever…
Ah… dont forget guild logistics… so recruiting people, putting them on trial. Gearing them up if necessary (for the nth time this season)… ect…
I feel M+ is actually LESS grindy than raiding.
1 Like
RWF is cringe anyway
Much like your post.
Also, bring back 10 man raiding, the barrier to entry is the logistics which are far easier as 10 man
1 Like
I cannot overstate how much i agree with this.
Flex mythic would just be a better experience.
Although it could make balancing harder. But honestly… WHO CARES! Nobody is playing the game because it’s balanced, people play games because they are fun.
They could just fix the roster to 20 for the race, and flex for normal servers.
In fact, i think that world first races should be done in a separate server with templates. To eliminate all discrepancies of ilvl and balance.
You pick the spec you wanna play, you have a template that is the same for everyone and that’s it.
They can balance the raid based on that with 20 players.
1 Like
No thanks, my fps already sucks with 30m pugs.