Hello all. i am here to complain again unfortunetly.
1)Arms 4th tier set bonus looks too weak dpswise.
2)Fury 4th tier set bonus is unfun and it wont change the build we play. it ll be like press bloodthirst sometimes. i wish blizzard could find a way to work it like first time it released. Each rampage critical hits give a stack to max 4 but it wont interact with whirlindwhirl, only on main target. As warriors we would like to see CSHB build work.
3) Shockwave should be 1 point to reach or even change it with int shout. Shockwave is hard to take as dps warrior. if we dont lose too much damge to take it i beilive every warrior would take it for m+ . it would help us to compete agaisnt other melee specs that have way better utility (stuns, stops etc. ).
Don’t worry about complaining, everyone does it. Just worry about having your opinion heard - after that it is what it is.
Arms set looks to in a decent spot (after the recent buff), it is way stronger than what Fury was season 1. Blizzard seem to want tier to be around 10-20% mark. Arms fall under that even on cleave where it is quite a bit weaker. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/148898720803586048/1100188263425257632/43e7a7829f009eabed58bd061ce4d9f5.png?width=720&height=460; source skyhold
Yeah, Fury tier (4) is quite boring compared to what it was, but it was probably made so for balance reasons. At least we will have a tierset that improves our DPS this tier, from numbers Fury might even outcompete arms on ST now (no longer a poopoo 2.5-8% tier set, now it is 10-16%). With the bonus crit value and just higher crit rating from gear, you can fit in CSHB for that AoE sustain DPS for the cost of a little of burst.
Taking shockwave is a 3-4% DPS loss (4-6k from 155k overall DPS), for a big AoE CC option on a short CD. I know a lot of people will scream HERECY BLASPHEMY at losing a tiny bit of output, yet that is the cost. If your team comp needs an AoE stun, warrior can easily provide it. The point is to have it being a choice you make. If it was just a braindead option - well, there would only be the illusion of a decision.
Sidenote: Don’t you dare touch Inti shout, I take it over stun (for DR reasons) any day of the week in 99% of teamcomps.
People call me crazy when i told this 2 month ago now all the Teorycrafters are regretting, warrior is simply a s*** obsolete a class and when we get some extra damage they are all ready saying is S tier but thats a big a lie because you can have damage if well tuned but you will never have nothing to offer like other clases. So yeah i just give up im gona main another class that doesnt give me problems to be invited all the time so i can actually play the game i pay for.
I highly recommend Retribution, as it it really - really strong at the moment. Also plays quite identical to warrior (just no charge/leap). They too got the short CD burst windows now.
If you want something a bit different, Shadowpriest and Demonhunter are also quite fun to play.
All options above will give you short wait times up to around the 22-25 area, after that you will likely have to look into going premade instead of PuGing.
i really really want to play fury because i like the class fantasy and my warrior is my oldest character that has the most time invested into it.
but it feels like i may need to ditch warrior because pugging will be extremely hard because fury does not provide enough dps to justify bringing a fury over a hunter or enhancer or frost dk or dh or rogue. also fury lacks in utility which all these classes provide.
guess i will be playing my blood dk next season and fury only for some pvp
Go for it my dude, don’t let the Fury PvP meme be a dream!
Now, trust me when I say, you can easily do up to 21s PuGing all the way as Fury warrior. But if you want to push higher, you should be looking for a group to go premade with.
Be the warrior that brings inti/stormbolt and if needed shockwave. Then you will be better than 80% of the warriors out there.
If you give up on Fury or not, I wish you the very best. Also, play BDK anyhow on the side - cause BDK is a ton of fun
1.Yeah they want to keep on that mark but it ll be dps loss for arms in both ST and aoe because of first tier set bonuses was better than new one.
2. We kinda on same page but again i heard from people on PTR says fury is behind most of specs at ST. i didnt test it myself. we ll se it eventualy.
3. I dont agree with this one. taking shockwave causes more dps loss than that. for my testing my self i would say 10k to 15k overall dps loss at dungeons and it depends on which dungeon. thats why most of m+ pushers above 3k rio mostly wont take shockwave. Of course if you have like good rogue in the team or you even in premade group with your friends you dont have to take shockwave but again we would be happy if they just delete ‘‘Endurance Training’’. we still need a bit more m+ utility that people i believe. please dont start with we have fear, shout etc. they are nothing to compare with rogue,shaman,havoc… utilies
Yeah, arms needs another minor buff. The new theorybuild for arms is looking alright, though. So not all doom and gloom.
Fury is and should be behind most on ST, as most specs specialise to do ST. Even so, on current build Fury is closer to the middle of the pack than season 1. So big gains!
Don’t base it on your dungeon runs, I had runs whit shockwave where I did 105k and runs without where I did 80k. M+ is far too much varriance to do a snap decsission or have any gut feelings.
I recommend you to do sim it. Also, the math was done early on - the math back then calculated a 6% at the high-end DPS loss for taking shockwave. As all you lose is one nodepoint for the stun.
If warrior could compare with shaman, rogues, Havoc (we directly compare to - both got to lose around 6% dps for the AoE stun, both bring an optional AoE fear and both bring a ST stun), we could argue the value of utility - but yeah, warrior is not lacking majorly in that compartment.
anyways they buffed arms and fury %4 for next tier just today. but still arms 4th bonus weak and doesnt make sense
why fury shoud be behind ?if the problem is having same build for ST and AOE fights just buff rampage, BT, RB etc and nerf the ww buff then do you also reckon fury is like 2nd or 3rd from bottom damage dealt to bosses for current tier
you cant get the exact real output numbers with dungeon slice. remember it is not an 30 min sims and dont have huge packs etc. dungeon slice goes like this;
Boss for just over 2 minutes (lust will be used for this boss)
4–6 mobs for 11–19 seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
4–6 mobs for 11–19seconds
1–3 mobs for 26–34 seconds
you ll notice huge dps dragdown on higher keys with big pulls. i tested it 22-23s levels. i dont know what keys are you doing but longer the fight bigger the pack= higher the dps loss from shockwave
i hope you understand this. if dps warriors utility so good why we dont get invities at higher keys 23s and above. i dont know if you tried to apply 23s-24s this season. it is insta decline or not get invited for hour. pls dont say just do your key
Nice, love aurabuffs. Yeah, arms got the season 1 fury issue, of dev brainfarts. The slam mechanic isn’t that bad though, Arch has shown it can do alright.
Fury should be behind, as Fury can do both at once. If you nerf WW Meatcleaver, you will kill Fury DPS as it is target capped.
I can’t give you the sources, but some sims have been done (will be released in due time), certain builds on Fury and setups, performs quite well. The tierset actually doing something helps a lot.
The math was not done by dungon slices alone. It was a whole project done by the bigbrains of the community. If you want to do m+ sims, do dungon slice, do 1 target 5 min, 3 target 5 min, 8 targets 5 min. Combine the ressults and use it to guide your choices.
You are not wrong in that “the bigger the pack, the bigger the DPS loss”, to a certain extent. Do remember that Shockwave is uncapped AoE, while warrior kit is capped or softcapped. So enough targets and shockwave is one of the best option funnily enough. But, to your point - the numbers changes and gets bigger, lets say 5 to 50k, but it is still within the 6% area of actual loss in difference.
I do keys around the 22 area, as that is the sweetspot for weeklies. (20-21 being impossible to get into (insta que is insta), due to player mass being there). If you are pushing upwards, you really should concider leaving the PuG world behind, as warrior is not a meta pick and the ones that would’ve brought you into a PuG already got their own warrior on the team.
Also, I wont tell you to just do your own key, because that is too obvious of an solution
as most of the people say highest keys are doable with any spec. kinda true an extend if you have a team for it. if you watch top warrior streamers like Critcake or Bizentein. they dont have to worry about utility or aoe stun. they got a good rogue player that does most of the stuns/stops. so by your logic i should find friends which plays meta specs to deal those m+ mechanics for me and if they are not skill of my level and i dont have backup for them we wipe. nice logic
woudnt be nice if i could also push above 3.2k rio with pugging as a rogue did that easly. i wonder if you have a team for m+? did you tried to apply 3k above m+ team before as dps warrior? i did have a team. we pushed to 22s zones and people lost interests and we disband i know that perfect balance is imposible but i bet even you want to dps warrior to be a meta sometimes or wanted spec so you dont have to wait hours to get invites for keys. there are some specs have that always(hunters,mages,shamans for BL). we are buffing attack power, temporary heath with shouts right ?so it woudnt be unlogical to give warriors to BL via a shout or maybe another shout for m+ which increases some stats of the party .for mmoarpgs isnt it natural want to enjoy the game we pay for? to acomplish that i need have the skill level for my self but i also need to spec i play competes the other specs. i dont know you maybe settled down with your 20-22s but some people want to do more than that via pugging and people timing 25s key levels with pugging. having a team is not possible for everyone you know
your raider io said 22 and 2.7k but i checked wrong charecter i guess. my bad i am sorry
No worries. I feel the pain of when your team disbands, it puts you in akward position. It sure would be nice to be able to push to the top 0.1% PuGing as any class/spec, yet we are talking about the top 0.1%. The best of the best, pushing against each other. Not having a team is a huge handicap, no matter the balance situation of your class.
I am sorry you wait hours to get into keys. My best advice is for you to network more and build up a solid bank of players to ask. Then you can team up and basically “soft pug” based on what keys people needs done to gain score. Over time, this structure of play will create socialisation and friendships, at worst team structures.
I stopped at 22 because I only wanted my 8/8 vault filled. Pushing for that 0.1% has never been my cup of tea.
Finally, you say that having a team is not possible for everyone. That is also true for becoming the top 0.1%. In fact, 99.9% failed to get to top 0.1%.
so therefore if having a team is hard issue ? so we are getting there. just say it. it sucks to pug keys as dps warrior. who cares 0.1% bla bla.did i even said i aimed for 3.5k rio .i like you. Pollyanna mentalty. i mean probably nothing in this world make upset you. i am not making these posts because of terror or being upset about spec.we come here to state an issue and we beilive we ll get some fixation from the devs. at SL i made post about we need shockwave back. actually a lot people did and volla we got shockwave back at DF. you see what i mean .i also believe you like endless loop arguments with people on warrior forum anyways take care have a nice time at next tier. adios
oh btw i forget to mention misfortune of taking shockwave in keys as arms warrior. you should definetly try that and share the results here not only sims but play it please
If you aim for 3.5k and don’t want to go into a team, I am sorry mate, you really will have rough seas ahead.
3.2k is currently top 0.3-0.1%. That is what you said you wanted to PuG.
You come with issues, that is true. But the solution and the problems themselves seem to come from a place of feelings and feel, not performance or actual limits.
ohh i see you are 2.7k rio and 3/8 mythic. you also dont play arms at all but give people a lot of talking about dps warrior hahaha. why i even bother to answer you hahaha my bad
it surely counts… surely it isnt basically a 15 key, surely…