10man raid lockouts are broken

So, there is something majorly wrong with 10man raid lockouts, when trying to share them to above 10 people.
We had a set of 10 people go in and kill omnitron on normal. Two days later we come back, and we have another setup ready for hc where we have swapped 3 (completely unsaved) people around.
The three new people can enter as long as the raid is normal, but the raid can’t be swapped to hc because it says the three new people are locked to “another bwd HC”. Now we have everyone go out, we swap the instance to HC before entering, and rejoice as the three new people now get the “do you want to be saved to an instance that has 1/6 bosses killed etc”-message. They accept, and we do a try on HC magmaw. We wipe, corpserun, and now the three people cant enter the instance, as they are “locked to another HC bwd” again. We notice that we don’t have the same raid ID anymore. We can go back to normal and then everyone can enter, but the IDs for HC blocks of from swapping to HC, and notefor the record, we have not even killed a single hc boss in this instance yet.

we say “screw this” and decides to go to back to Bastion of twillight instead, where we have already killed Halfus and Valiona on HC, two days past. We bring in the 3 new people there, and they dont even get a message if they want to get saved. Doesn’t stop them from entering this time, instead 5ish second after entering they get teleported to the nearest graveyard, with the message “you are already saved to another bastion of twillight hc”, without ever having set foot in the instance. They didnt even get an ID this time, they just got ported out when entering. We went out swapped it to normal, had people relog a bunch of time, and X amount of tries later all three manages to enter without getting ported. We then procced to clear the last two (council and chogal) on normal, as the swap to hc was prevented.

It is easy to say that something is completely broken about the system that shares raid IDs atm. Obviously I only know about 10man and not 25. This would also not affect any group that stays the same 10, and just blasts through everything on normal.
Any group that does a mix of normals and heroics, and are also swapping people in and out for various bosses are getting completely wrecked by this, to the point where the game simply doesnt work to play.
We even managed to replicate the issue with some new dinged 85s that we tried to share IDs to (we warned them first).

I found similar posts on the US forum regarding this, you know, as they actually have a “bug section” amongst their forums.

We are 13 raiders in our 10man raid guild, and we rotate players in and out on a boss by boss basis, depending on who needs loot or optimizing setups for certain HCs. With this bug, we would need to stay with the exact same 10 people if we wanted to try hc bosses, and god forbid that anyone DCs or cant make a raid, as the ID sharing is wrecked.

This completely breaks our way of raiding, or playing the game. Extremely demoralizing to have this occour on the first progression week, and I doubt any of us will continue playing if this isnt fixed over the next couple of days.

4 Likes

I’m fairly sure it’s working as intended.

Cata is not flex size, So it’s 10 people per ID on HC.

That doesnt make sense. You 'r saying that if one has a single person DC, then your entire reset for that instance is screwed, as you cant bring in a replacement? That doesn’t sound intended to me. Also, why is it not the same with 25man, who can swap in more than 25 people.
Also, what even determines what people get to do hc then, as we encountered this issue without even killing a hc boss. The only boss killed was on normal.

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Heroic - Strict Instance-based Lockout : Progress is tied to a fixed instance ID. Once tied to an instance ID, you may not enter any other versions of that raid of that difficulty until your raid lock resets.

If u want to do heroic, its the same players that entered the raid in the first place. Since normal and heroic dont have a separate lockout this time, it had a wierd interaction between both modes and work under the same rule set. Meaning u want to do HC, its the group that entered.
Normal it has a flexible system where you can move from group to group during a week as long as you’re joining instances that don’t have bosses alive you’ve already killed

There is no way that’s how it’s intended to work. They wouldn’t lock it to just the originals that started the ID, else the message “this Instance ID has a boss killed and is at 2/6 or w/e the full message is would you still like to join” is entirely pointless.

Guilds have raided with extra members rotating them in and out for years so it is 100% not meant to work that way. If it is that is completely idiotic: why have the message asking if you are ok joining a raid that’s part completed? what are you meant to do if you lost a raid member mid-raid to DC etc? there is just too much pointing that’s not how it’s intended to work and IF it somehow is Blizz needs to confirm that because that’s just dumb.

2 Likes

Like OP posted, this bug totally killed our momentum for first week progression and was very demoralizing.

It also just feels bad, because it didnt work for the rest of the normal bosses in BoT until it did. After it was set to normal, we had 2/3 new guys able to zone in as expected, but the last one was continuously ported. None of them had killed a boss or trash in BoT that reset. After a series of trying random things like reloging, restarting pc, praying and deleting cache, it suddenly worked and he was able to stay after zoning in. For no apparant reason other than “get lucky”.

After we killed the council boss, we ask if they got a lockout now, which they did. But the raid ID is a different ID than the other 7 that also killed the 2 hc bosses. Which makes no sense, as its the same raid ID.

2 Likes

Why would you expect any thi g blizzard does to make sense?

I am sure both of us can find decisions made by Blizzard that we don’t agree with, but they have always had the concept of “availability” in quite high regard. This would not only screw over every semi organized guild who have an extra person or two that they want to rotate in, but it would screw over pugs and all other forms as well.
Imagine you setting up a pug for an hc raid. After first boss one guy DCs or just ragequits becuase his item didn’t drop. You are now unable to get a replacement in and your only option is to either try and do the rest of HCs on 9man or simply clear the rest on normal.
This is just in a complete opposite direction of how any group play, be it 5man, 10, 25 or 40 has worked before, or works after. It would punish guild communities, as well as bad luck with technology or that one raging pug.
I am very certain this is not intended.

2 Likes

Absolutely nothing to do with flex - this is just a huge bug.

Even retail M+ raids allow replacements to come in. As it is currently implemented, replacements even if you have someone dc or you change tactic/need a different composition. Those additional players can’t come in - they were physically getting different raid Ids when they zoned in.
They had never been into BWD and multiple different players were getting different RaidIds that were joining the raid. When they clicked accept 1/6… they were allocated a different raid ID to the leader.

NB. The new person actually stays in the raid when they first accept. But they get a different raid Id but don’t get ported. As soon as they go outside or have to re-enter the instance (i.e. die) they then get ported out. So it’s pretty toxic.

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It has to be a bug, there’s no way around it, there’s too many instances of this completly ruining a lot of peoples raids.
People can disconnect, guilds can have more than 1 raid day which means not everyone may be available to continue the raid on the next raid day, rotating people either for composition purposes or because they have more than 10 people raiding.

2 Likes

This is also happening on 10m and 25m as reported on the US forums. Brilliantly eu accounts cant cross post onto the US forums. Tickets have been raised but the GM’s responding to this are in the dark… and you end up going down the route of it not being a known bug.

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We encountered the same thing for our 25 man BWD.
And it can’t be flex, at least not as described here, as parts of the team that was there yesterday couldn’t enter, not even our leader could enter when it was just him trying to enter with no one else inside.

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An acknowledgement by blizzard to all the tickets that have been raised on this would be nice don’t you think? It is a serious bug breaking raid teams and locking out guild raid team members.

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Just uninstall cata at this point.

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We had this happen today as well.

Our guild master was late and some other members started up the raid then gave the guild master leader of the raid group once he came on.
When we tried to enter we got the error message that we are ineligible to participate.

We remade the raid, made sure the guild master was the one who created the raid group (who was raid leader when we did the first few bosses on HC) then we entered raid again with no problem.

so Make sure the player who was leader to start with, is still the leader of the group when you remake

May not work for everyone, but at least it worked for us

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Same thing happened to us tonight. We killed 2 first bosses in bot heroic last night. We swtiched out one player for the second boss. Tonight we did normal council with me on the bench, and no players who had not participated on the bosses from last night in the raid. On cho’gal we switch me in, i get the “are you sure you want to get saved message”. It does not work to change from normal to hc, so we try to go in and out. Now i can not reenter (says “you are allready locked blablabla”). We all have the same raid ID.

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We got that as well after a few attempts after the above post, after a wipe every raid member released and ran back, so the raid was empty causing this bug to occur.

We all left raid, then made several raid groups make sure its on HC then tried to enter raid, and a few of those groups was able to enter, so we all joined the group that could enter the raid.

To avoid it happen again, we just sendt a healer to corpse run so that there was always someone inside the raid. Or making sure wipe protection was up / battle ressing a resser before wipe.

As long as there was people inside the raid, we did not get this bug again.

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Another topic on this one

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We had the same happen to us. We continued our ID from thursday and everything was working fine until our first wipe. Then some people couldnt enter anymore so we set it to nhc, which made some people able to enter, but the four people who werent with us on thursday were bugged and could never enter again. Which meant that we had to finish on nhc… It was pretty sad actually

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Did you attempt any of the possible fixes that i wrote here?