Ah I see.
Your argument sort of loses its weight by insulting me personally mate.
All I’m saying that it doesn’t hurt having to put in effort to get the reward, it has nothing to do with elitism vs scrubs.
We might as well just hand out the gear if we need to cater to everyone.
Never did I claim you must raid to get rewards, infact I said the opposite, and never did I hate on anybody. It’s only you hating on me because I’m not having the opinion you want
Also, when I say “stuff like raider IO” I mean all of the above.
For me it is effort to get a +10 done every week. Especially pugging them.
The developers are constantly listening to people like you who want to make any form of gear reward more and more elitist, content harder and harder, and turn the whole game into an elitist rat race that burns out players. And then they wonder why they are losing subs.
Hell I nearly even burned myself out of wow just trying to push my Rio rating. The elitist section of the player base is turning the game into a competitive rat race, one that won’t appeal beyond a small niche if developers continue listening to them and making things harder.
For example +15s were normal in legion, now only +10s are normal. They are stuffing dungeons with difficult trash to slow down the “Method” type players and to hell with anyone else.
Raids are now so filled with mechanics as to make raiding a chore, every fight has poo on the ground somewhere, individual mistakes wipe raids, and no boss has less than six or seven mechanics, where as in the past all you had to watch was a couple.
If they continue to worry about a certain type of players “beating” the game and not start to think about you average player looking for challenge but not chores, they will eventually kill things off altogether.
Legion +15 = +10 BFA
It’s the same difficulty.
You don’t seem to understand what elitism means. I don’t feel entitled to anything, I don’t call people scrubs or claim people should spend so much time on WoW as if it was their second life.
Personally, I work 50 hours a week, alongside having hobbies and a social life I tend to. Yet I still have the capability to go high M+ with a not so good M+ spec.
Again, I think effort should pay off, and I think having ilvl 425 accessible to everyone is a bad thing, knowing that I probably never will achieve top tier.
Your comments makes you out to seem entitled to end game content with minimal effort really.
You know you can easily do it personally so you want to set a new bar you can do but which excludes others you feel “aren’t working hard enough”.
That is exactly the type of elitism that is destroying wow.
The idiot developers start off by making a raid for the 0.5% of mythic raiders who will complete it, and then throw the badly tuned version at everyone else. To the point where 10 man is no longer viable.
The same with M+, all the trash is there to slow down the basement dwelling e-sports types and to hell with the average player.
People like you are destroying this game for everyone else.
If you’re gonna be immature I don’t really see a reason to discuss with you.
I’ll just leave a note here and say, that vanilla+TBC was WoW’s period with the most elitism in it. Content was restricted to every non-top tier player, yet it still had the largest growth in population.
Doesn’t mean I agree with the above, but I definitely don’t think having to put in effort or having to overcome a challenge for the reward is a bad thing.
It had population growth because it was relatively new to most people playing it. The had to nerf in Lich King to maintain it, and when they went back to hard in Cata (because of listening to people like you) they lost about 1/3 of all their entire subs base (from 12m down to 8m).
The harder you make the game, the smaller the percentage of players who will be able to complete meaningful content, the more players who will just give up on it and quit. But hard-core elitists like you just don’t seem to care and think the game will continue on with your 1% of the player base subscriptions.
We got Warfronts, we got incursions, we got a WM quest that rewards 385 ilvl gear.
That seems like a you problem with a lot of subjective perception.
Rewards only scale up to +10 aswell, so a +15 in legion is the same as a +10 in BFA (btw. at the beginning of M* in legion, dungeons only scaled up to +10 aswell, later on they upped it)
As someone that came back from TBC i enjoy challenging trash over bosses with 1 shot mechanics.
Thats just the nature of a 14 year old game, fighting Rag with 1 mechanic at a time just isn’t challenging. If you don’t like that raids can be “hard”, there are lower difficulties for you.
In the old days you just weren’t able to see the harder difficulties at all.
If you weren’t able to clear Kara chances are high you never saw SSC or TK.
I agree the game has a lot of content that feels like a chore, but for a casual there are no chores, you don’t need a +10 every week nor a neck of 40+ if all you do is +4 dungeons.
You can make a game that has several difficulties for every one, i don’t mind LFR/Normal/HC/Mythic and M+.
I think it’s a good balance, even though we could probably remove 1 of the raid difficulties imho.
Everyone has challenging content and gets rewarded gear accordingly. If you just want to clear LFR, you won’t need a full set of 425 items, yet if you want, you can step up and do harder content.
I don’t have a problem with a +10 rewarding 400 iLvL items either, i think it’s a fair reward for that key level, but a +15 doesn’t reward gear according to it’s difficulty anymore.
The problem is when the “bad” players demand the same rewards as the “top” players for doing easier content.
Nothing in the game is rocket sience, yet is the amount of things to do that makes the difference.
I tanked atal 10 yesterday. In none of the boss i had to anything more than move away or move to a puddle, or interrupt once every 30 sec.
Same night i tanked jadefire myth, so much more complicated. Manage 2 boss, stack, move around, survive 10+ stack, drop them without killing the raid, avoid bombs etc etc etc.
If you don’t see the difference, i can’t see the discussion going forward.
Same for raiding, excpet the number of mechanics grows with every difficult step. Normal has less mechanics than heroic than has less than mythic.
+1 or +15 the fight is the same, +15 bosses just hit much harder, nothing more.
I could say the same about you: you have done no raiding whatsoever in boda, but you’re totally sure it’s a faceroll.
So tanking Grong or Mythrax or Vectis or Taloc is more complicated than tanking e.g. council in FH?
All of those require exactly one mechanic from you, taunting while the council requires you to hold aggro of several bosses, move bosses, kite bosses, not kite bosses and the figh is different every week. Furthermore you also need to know all routes and basically every trash mechanic in a dungeon.
Except even a +10 plays different than a +15 because there are mechanics that you can completely ignore up to a certain key level, basically “adding” new mechanics that become relevant once the boss hits hard enough.
I pay my money, if I can’t get it because they make the content too difficult I’ll pay money to something else. That is the part you don’t get, most players these days aren’t willing to finance rewards that can only be obtained by others.
You won’t get a single player game expecting it to already be 100% completed, do you?
If I buy a mario cart game and i can’t beat it/unlock all the cars due to me being bad, that’s on me, i can still enjoy the game and if all i ever wanted was the 100% without actually enjoying the gameplay, i probably should’ve played a different game to begin with.
You’re complaining about the fundamentals of an RPG.
Get stronger(Be it solely due to gear or because you gained knowledge/skill), get better items.
No but I will expect it to be completable, either by console commands to make me stronger or by trainers. Sorry but lots of people do this these days.
See above, if it can’t be console commanded, I and lots of others won’t buy them.
I never played Diablo for this reason and you are forced to play online. This is what wow is competing against, that and games where you can buy full tier in store. And you want to make it harder to obtain gear
Just because a few of the origninal RPGs where hard as hell grindfests there is no “religious text” that says “thou shalt not have anything beyond extreme difficulty in an RPG”.
Mythic champions on heroic and mythic are basically the same difficulty with more numbers and I’ll probably never get jadefire mythic.
What I’m saying is I shouldn’t have the gear that I do. The gear that I have is way beyond the skill level I’m playing at and likely will ever play at.
I should be proud to have reached mid-mythic ilvl but I’m not. I got it extremely easily compared to what actual mythic raiders are doing and have done.
Mate, it’s not always about denying loot for scrubs.
I want my own progression to feel relevant.
I don’t want to get a TF from HC that is above mythic iLvL, it takes away from the excitement of looting that mythic item.
Scarlyss has killed 4 mythic bosses at 407 while i am at 407 with 18 boss kills, not because i don’t get loot, but because scarlyss got a bunch of good loot for doing “easier” content, like M+10.
Then go play your ST games if you can’t handle a somewhat “competitive” (competitive in a sense that better players get better items/a better rank/whatever) environment, that every online game has.
You’re the type of player that will complain about a better LoL player getting a diamond icon while you only get bronze at the end of a season.
You start nerfing the current rewards and you will kill the game. The sheer scale and size of the sale of boost runs alone should tell you that.
Players want content to be capped at a level the average player can do. They are so frustrated by the current difficulty to do this that are paying real money left right and center to obtain boost. Even up to €2000 for a mythic raid CE run.
Blizzard need to start realising fast that people will no longer tolerate being treated like second class citizens, and that modern players do not like being sneered at by the elitists in this game, and being looked down on for not being able to complete content.
The best thing they could do is start by removing mythic raids entirely from the game and capping the skill level required for content.
Yes they might lose 1 or 2% of the player base but they would gain a hell of a lot more.
Sorry, but you seem to forget that it is I and others who are paying the money to Blizzard. The likes of you are only a tiny minority in this game now. The sooner the developers cotton on to this the better.
When people pay money for something they should dam well demand the full package, and not just the bits that aren’t being
Yes but the best rewards are for non-casuals which demoralises the majority of players and turns them off the game. The best titles, mounts, and gear are only for the tiny percent. Getting rid of these people and that content would be better for the overall health of the game than any other move they could make.
Ah yes, the good old classic ‘If i can’t have it, no one should have it’ mentality.
That’s an argument a 5 year old would bring.
You know that the top 1 or 2% are what make the game as much as the bottom 1 or 2%?
The top 2% carry the next 4% who carry the next 8% who carry the next 16%, etc…
Mate, 99% of the WoW content and basically all BFA features are for casuals.
TMog farming, Pet farming, Mount farming, Warfronts, Islands, WQs, Normal/HC/M/Low M+ dungeons, LFR, Normal, HC.
Heck they even add a pet dungeon that is made specifically for casuals.
You don’t need high end gear to do any of those things.
As someone that does “high end” content (If you can say some mythic raiding and some M+ is high end), i want to work for my gear and not get it served on a silver tray.
![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
