Trash is the best part.
Trash is more engageing i give it that but its hardly fun when there is so much and people roll nelf /use CR to skip most of it and do only whats needed .
I rather they worked on boss mechanics more and sorted the 1 short issues.
Depends on which afix and with what kind of people you doing 10+
This week I had 5+ temple of sethraliss It is like I was doing +20 Tank don’t know what he is doing, heal was high …yeaaa fun of all ages 
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That would not be possible since weapons are capped at +10 WF.
415 from weekly chest, sure.
I meant it’s the mace from motherlode =)
And bosses in raids are so much different?
Kill add, move to x, kill boss, avoid big circle in the middle. Yeah rocket sience
According to you M+ bosses on tyrannical are so easy? You go try a +15 Siege, Shrine or Tol Dagor. See how it compares to mythic whatever are the bosses is bored of dazalor.
Bosses generally have critical mechanics and in both versions there will be more pressure on healing and more focus on not failing a single mechanic.
The longer the fight takes, the easier to do a mistake at one point. In high keys the bosses will take long and every mistake wiped the group
just that gear literally stops going higher than +10. You can outgear everything below but from then on you cannot do that anymore.
Quaking is annoying at first but in higher keys is very deadly in certain situations. As you know it doesn’t only do dmg, but also locks you out. Some situations are so healing intensive, any lock out will wipe you. And of course it also lowers dps for constant repositioning (melees) and stop casts (casters)
DD players can often not comprehend more things than move from a to b. Yes most affixes punish the healers, thats why you probably find quaking so easy
You didn’t really do any high dungeons and failed some dungeons by like 20mins yet telling me M+ are so easy? o.o
The worst part of quaking is trying to drink if you are a healer, it random procs, often after a pack is cleared and out of combat, and puts on more time pressure.
I feel like everyone missed the point entirely.
OP wants loot to be harder to get, and his method of doing so is to make M+ harder.
He is comparing it to heroic raiding and the difficulty of both. People are discussing that here.
You’d be surprised how much dead weight there is in the LFG if you think +10’s should be harder. Go play with pugs OP then tell me how easy it was when half of the group isnt likely going to even have the right traits/talents equipped, let alone do 8k dps.
Literally stopped pugging given how many people have been carried and had their r io scores inflated.
Harder for who?
Go with a full 390 group and there’s a big chance you still struggle. Yes, if the whole group is 408, ofc you zerg through 400 content like a walk in the park.
So should it be more difficult for the 390 ones or the ones out-gearing the content already?
Some people are, but a lot of others are complaining that OP said loot should be denied to some people, which is untrue and out of context.
Which is what OP is saying. Gearing up is too easy compared to the difficulty. How many people who can do their +10s also have curve I wonder, because honestly I really don’t think a lot of them do.
It’s easy to do ilvl 400 content, when you can access it with less than required gear.
You most likely won’t be getting a Jaina kill with an ilvl 390 group, but you can definitely farm M+10 with one.
Mhm, complete it? Sure. In time? I don’t think the average 390 pug will have an easy time doing so. So perhaps change that (getting rewards even though it’s out of time).
Could definitely be a way to do it.
After all, you only need to complete +10 once a week to acquire your ilvl 410+.
I’d still like to see it getting restricted to a +11 or +12 for the matter, getting just short of mythic level gear should be harder than it is.
Heroic raid = the old normal. Mythic raid = proper raid.
The only thing easier about M+10 or higher than heroic raiding is the group size, as it is easier to get five half decent players together than 20.
Other than that heroic raiding isn’t that hard.
Most of those doing M+ have been concentrating on that more so than the raid for gearing up over the last month. I’d be very surprised if a lot don’t curve the raid for the achieve at come stage, but interest in the raid beyond that isn’t very big.
It is an alternative path to raiding. A lot of players are sick of trying to pug raids, or having to join guilds that want you online at time X four nights per week.
And let those people have their content, I’m not against M+ being a way to get to the top, but I also don’t think that people who aren’t good enough to get curve should be able to get just short of mythic level gear.
At least pre-titanforging there would still be a barrier for these people.
Most players completing M+ would be of a high enough standard to get curve, and many would be of a high enough standard to raid mythic.
To me at least, and I’d say to many of them, M+ is far more fun than raiding. It doesn’t demand you are on X nights per week, nor do you have the absolute frustration of organising large groups of people in a dying game that has lost lots of sub.
Nerf M+ into the ground or increase the 410 chest to +15 and see a large part of the subs base fall off the cliff again.
Not what I’m saying though.
Do something as simple as what was suggested above => If you run out of time you get no loot.
Simple as that. If you weren’t good enough to complete the challenge you don’t deserve the reward.
You’ll see a lot more people having to downgrade to +9 or +8 for the ilvl 395/405 pieces, which doesn’t affect the individual a lot.
Stuff like raider IO is a byproduct of ilvl being an unreliable way of meassuring someone’s capability.
They will /quit if you do that; it might suit your elitist attitude, but it will make a massive loss of subs. A lot of players will try to just push a key to 10 and complete for weekly every week.
I know M+ is the only thing keeping me playing WOW at the moment. If they start making more changes to it to suit elitists, I for one will certainly be gone.
You don’t seem to get that if people aren’t raiding because they get the gear elsewhere, they really don’t want to have to raid in the first instance.
Also if you want to be elitest, it is the mythic raid that counts, or getting achievements for +15 keys. Hating on people for getting gear because they aren’t doing the content you think they should be doing is one of the major problems with this game.
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And ilev never was a way of measuring someones ability. And don’t use that as an excuse for nerfing gear drops for us “scrubs”.
You had logs and parses, trial runs, and a myriad of other ways of weeding out people ever before RIO.