R.I.P. the rogue class FR, i was having so much fun playing this class but blizz just seems to kill it patch after patch, with the upcoming midnight expansion we have our cheapshot with a new 12 sec cd… its beyond neft its defining the way rogue play in pvp all together and its a shame.
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I can’t say I’m encouraged by the Rogue alpha notes at present, especially for Outlaw. The change to Restless Blades looks good on paper but unless it can work to make AR 1 min or less CD then Supercharger talent seems to be better for Sub and Assa and Outlaw might as well forget that entire section of the tree.
My other gripe is increasing Blade Rush damage I agree with, but not at the expense of adding 15secs to the CD. And Killing Spree might as well disappear at this point, 60% damage reduction. Plus losing Ghostly Strike, our burst has just up and screwed off on paper. Obviously I know it’s all subject to change based on Alpha and Beta test feedback but I think we all know it’s most likely going live as it is planned.
The only upside so far is Vanish is no longer need offensively 
Still I’ll see how Outlaw plays come Midnight Pre-Patch but I’m thinking it might be time to change class.
22s CD on AOE blind and abilities adding multiple charges to cheap shot. Rogue will be fine.
We should reroll to warriors or ret palas.
I understand that CC after CC after CC is cancerous but their keep on gutting the rogue class.
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That’s an insane nerf for all 3 specs. For assassination I can say, this is devastating.
How did they even figure this out? We’re rogues. We stun people. That’s our thing.
It’s like taking a death grip from a DK, or freezing trap from a hunter. How do they expect us to play the game?
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All classes are losing tons of abilities. Rogues will still be the kings of CC. This is fine.
If warriors were losing stormbolt, or shadow priests were losing silence or something, I’d say fair point, but everybody’s losing bunch of useless bloat, where we are getting our CC trimmed - again, for the Xth time in a row.
I wouldn’t say rogues will be kings of CC, or even princes of CC. How will rogue be any better then, for example warr? AOE stun, AOE disorient (on shorter CD then we have blind, same duration), stormbolt as ranged stun on single target, champion spear for unbreakable root, disarm, interrupt of course. Optional cheeky stuff includes dragon charge for knockback, duel - reduces your dmg by 50% on anyone but the warrior himself.
Except, you know, unlike rogues, for warriors, CC is not literally their whole class.
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Rogues CC is a joke already except those cheap shots and now that too will be a joke. Maybe sub will be somewhat playable, idk.
So far, it’s clear to me they intend to continue ignoring the rogue class in midnight. Rogue now is literally a much worse warrior with stealth, and even stealth has been broken for ages.
The devs have been treating rogues like cookie dough far too long: every patch where they don’t ignore us completely they cut out a piece - sometimes they use it to make some other class stronger, other times they just throw it away. What’s left is the scraps around the cutter - that’s rogue now. I’ve lost most hope that it will ever be a good class again.
We are paying the stealth tax, the CC-tax and even the freaking non-hybrid tax which is a joke in itself. And instead of fixing this absurd state of the game and rogues specifically, their response is to tax rogues even more.
Rogue should be the fastest moving and most avoidance-heavy class, with feral as its only rival in that space. Rogue should be the king of CC and have the most tricks up their sleeve, it’s the whole class fantasy. Instead… I’m not gonna repeat myself for the hundredth time. Fix the freaking class, Blizzard, your debt to rogues is due. We must get 8 sec blind back, we must get burst of speed or something equally as good back, we must get survivability back (no, 99% of survivability being just feint is not ok). And we must be the hardest and most rewarding class - not like now, when there’s all the complexity and no reward. And no, dumbing it down is not the way to go either.
Outlaw not relying on vanish is nice though.
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My problem is that without CC we turn into warrior class. Sadly squishier than them.
Warrior is much better though. They have good burst and much higher and more consistent damage outside of burst. Their survivability is miles better with our only edge being CoS and Cheat Death, both of which are bugged and the latter can’t even be played because it’s simply impossible to survive without elusiveness in 99% cases. Gameplay is much simpler, both in offense and defense. Mortal strike is better than wound poison for some reason and is physical. Hamstring is on demand and physical compared to crippling and we don’t have a short-CD shiv anymore. Rend and Deep Wounds don’t require combo points and thus are better than Rupture, meaning they have an easier time applying physical dots against rogues as well.
And even their CC is pretty good - they don’t need stealth, combo points and even rage to use all their CC except fear which requires rage AFAIK. Fear is one to one comparable to blind. Storm bolt is shorter than kidney but is ranged and doesn’t need combo points. And Shockwave is a short-CD AoE stun which we can only emulate with the cheap shots they are taking away from us. Oh, almost forgot, they also have a spear which is the best CC in the game in many situations.
We are already a worse version of a warrior, the only real advantage we have is stealth that is bugged to oblivion and spammable Cheap Shot that we’re losing in midnight.
Just look at every button they have from simple damaging abilities to cooldowns and compare with what we have. Warriors have almost everything we have but better, because blizzard cares at least a little bit about warriors (I’m not saying they don’t have problems though). Compare other classes with rogue and you will see a similar picture. Devs still treat rogues as if we had miles better CC than anyone else, 45% crit and dodge from agility and were the only class with sprint, but all of those have been false for at least 12 years. “Here’s feint, good luck”. It’s sickening.
3 Likes
Honestly If the devs compensate us with more damage and they give us a bigger push in terms of utility/defensives(They added some stuff in the last Alpha patch) I would be fine with this change. in 3-4 days I managed to get to ~2250 rating on my ret paladin with a ~70% winrate. How? nobody can stop you, nobody uses Purge on BoP and Judgements Hit for 1.5 mil without crits meanwhile Outlaw’s Ambush hits for a whopping of 400k if it crits and you are out of Energy and didn’t generate enough CPs
I’m seeing most classes Keeping/Getting Defensives and Utility spells I’m not saying we need a Magic Dispel (I mean why not if they give us one) but I’m saying we should do enough damage that not purging BoP or a Hunter with 5 seconds of Cheetah(Cheetah Gives Evasion) on 45 CD in PvP Shouldn’t matter for us 'cause right now Idk what an Outlaw is able to do in Midnight for both PvP and PvE since Assa and Sub are going to be 10 times better in all aspects of the game
To make rogue as good as ret we should get 45-60 sec CD on CoS, MoP version of Burst of Speed and like x5 damage outside of cooldowns. I wish I were exaggerating, but the gap is so huge, I’m not even sure that’d be enough. They are basically a ranged spec now as well, what a joke.
I still can’t understand how someone could look at backstab doing literally 1.5% of overall damage while being the most used ability in a fight and think that it’s fine. The only explanation I have is that they didn’t look at it at all. I love my shadow dances, but this is ridiculous. And we won’t have that many SDs in Midnight, unless we stack tons of haste. So far, this doesn’t sound good to me.
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SP are losing their stun 
Rogues lost the uniqueness of their toolkit many expansions ago, every tool rogue had has been given to other classes, which have an insane damage profile. We are no longer the control class. DH, DK, Feral, Hunter, has way more CC than rogue while have 3x damage.
Now the classes that shouldn’t have gotten some abilities in the first place, will get those abilities pruned, but rogues, who haven’t gotten anything after the smoke bomb, lost 20sec KS and now losing cheap shot spam.
Also restless blades not reducing vanish cooldown is another Giga nerf.
I was hoping for a major modernisation and rework of the Rogue class to bring it up to par to all this OP BS we have, but no. They’re refreshing Hunter again instead.
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They should give garrote to all specs.
Give garrote on 6 seconds cd to every spec so we get to press something when cheap shot is on cd or on dr.
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Tbh I think its a good change. The way lots of rogue specs relied on stealth for damage is stupid and no one likes a stun bot. Similar reasons why things like Outlaw cant do huge damage because if it does, it just dominates everything with the amount of CC/mobility it has.