I’m interested in hearing peoples thoughts on this. While Blizzard enabled it, it was the players who made the choice to destroy PvP realms and turn them into mono-faction realms.
“Everyone hates World PvP anyway” is thrown around quite a lot in these discussions. Which makes me wonder why it had to be PvP realms that were overloaded with one faction rather than PvE ones where it wouldn’t have destroyed a key element of the game.
This isn’t really a whine thread, just interested to hear would you rather play on a PvP realm with 15k on each side or a 30k mega, one faction server? And why?
I don’t think this is a problem limited to PVP servers.
Having a casual glance at IF Demographics right now shows that all PVE realms save for two have an insanely skewed faction balance. Only two servers has close to 50/50, the next four is at 60/40, and almost all the rest are around 80/20.
The biggest four are 99/1.
Comparing that to the PVP servers, the PVP servers are definitely a bit worse on the faction skewing, but not by much. Which tells me this isn’t so much a PVP issue, but an issue with the game itself.
Noone PvPs in the world, It makes zero difference to 99% of the players if there is an opposite faction or not. In fact it enhances their experience that there are none.
Interactions with people from the opposite faction are at best neutral experience for an average player. Usually, it’s a negative.
That’s the entire point of a PvP server. You said it yourself, twice actually.
Opposite faction
It’s not that complicated.
World PvP was huge in “real” vanilla, tbc, wotlk to a lesser extent. All of the famous WoW PvP videos were about World PvP. People like, or liked it. That is, or was why you pick a PvP realm
@Wkellar
Noone PvPs in the world, It makes zero difference to 99% of the players if there is an opposite faction or not. In fact it enhances their experience that there are none.
Hence my OP where I wonder why roll PvP in the first place?
Yeah, I don’t understand why everyone wants to play on PVP realms to be on a mono faction realm and therefore don’t do world PVP, the only difference with PVE realms.
I can understand that back in 2006-2008, there could have been reasons for players not knowing where to start and go with their friends, and that is why I defend Warmode change in Retail. Players shouldn’t be bound in 2022 to a decision made in 2006.
But I can’t understand why the same happens in Classic. There is no excuse anymore. People could have chosen PVE now; that is what I did this time. Why everyone chooses what they don’t want, world PVP?
That is the reason I can’t feel empathy for players in mono-faction PVP realms.
30k monofaction any day. Other faction is useless to me. Can’t do raids with them, can’t do dungeons with them, can’t quest with them, can’t do business with them.
They are only there to steal my nodes. Better just not be there at all.
First of all, that’s not true. The point of a pvp server is that people can indiscriminately attack players from the opposite faction in contested territory. That’s all pvp server is. There is no mandate to participate in world pvp or any specific reward for doing it, as far as game mechanics are concerned players can be even punished for world pvp if the location has hostile guards.
And your question was basically why people are opting in for mono faction servers. World pvp is usually not the major factor here. You can’t do anything with the opposite faction. You can’t (effectively) trade, you can’t do dungeons, arenas, raids, BGs, quests or anything else with opposing faction. When faced with a choice of 50-50 server and mono faction server with the same number of players most goal-oriented players will see a server with 30k players to play with and a server with half the players, half the economy and 15k people blocking queue slots to contribute nothing. It’s a horrible deal unless someone specifically wants to participate in world pvp (and we have clear proof that it’s a very small minority that doesn’t even need balanced servers for that)
So was the original Nintendo DS, Madden NFL 06, Thotbot, and a bunch of other things that were huge in 2005. I don’t see how’s that relevant.
The most famous WoW video is about a guy who likes chicken running into whelp eggs in UBRS with 32.33(repeating of course)% chance of survival. Another famous one is about guy popping vein because no one could handle many whelps on even side. Neither of those is an indication on how people play today (I hope so at least)
I don’t think that was ever the case. And I am sure that it’s not the case now. Some very casual players make those decisions with absolutely no idea what they are doing, that’s why there are a bunch of leveling players on dead factions. And for people that are making an educated decision the main factor will be always “will I have people to play with once I hit max level”, server type is completely irrelevant in that decision.
It’s not that people particularly hate world pvp, they just don’t care about it. And stuff that people care about like raiding, arena, leveling is better when you are surrounded by people that can participate with you. Faction/realm system that Classic is working with is bad, that’s why it was changed in retail and that’s why most MMOs that decided to ride the wave of WoW success decided to ditch one or both of them.
Some streamer who’s name shall remain unmentioned stated that hordes rolling on a pve realm are sissy’s (don’t remember this person’s exact wordings) and no alpha-male-wannabee wants to be that
As for alliance motivation, i think it was them getting slaughtered by the masses of hordes on horde dominated pvp realms, most of them moved to a higher alliance populated realm or pve realms.
There was one pvp server however on which the alliances were in the majority, it’s where hordes were slaughtered by the masses of alliances.
All the slaughters in classic (so the replay of vanilla) are the main reason for those mono-faction pvp servers. But none of those players are sissy’s ofc
Of course, 50:50 server. People here are always talking about wpvp 5vs1, low vs high lvl etc. The opposite faction is more than that. feeling of danger, random interaction with opposing factions, which creates unexpected situations. You can’t script that. And this situations will be that core memory that you will remember long after the classic ends. Without that, the game lost most of its charm.
If you are allowing server transfers, every server without any intervention will end 0:100. It is only a matter of time. And it will happen faster and faster. Some people will leave in situations like 45:55 to go to a stronger faction, making the situation even worse. Now you have 40:60, so more people will be leaving etc… until rest of the server doesn’t even have any choice but to leave too. This causes a panic, so people are trying to get to the biggest server to prevent getting stuck on an empty server. The only cure is to not allow transfers at all and just merge empty servers if its need it, but it’s too late for that. The second solution would be to just make all monofaction big servers PVE. Create new ONE big PVP server and give everyone a choice. Stay on the PVE server or transfer to the last and only PVP server for free. There are more solutions in my head. But every solution requires Blizzard to take some drastic steps, and we all know Blizzard will not take any. So for many of us, it seems like that classic journey is coming to an end a bit sooner than expected. I can get over many things (like paying for boost,spit,etc), but without the opposite faction, it’s just voidness and boredom. All charm is gone. If there were only PVE servers from the beginning, I wouldn’t even start playing here. And that is what we have now.
Megaservers are just people’s cry for crosserver capabilities to be brought into Classic. Blizzard recently stated that there is no more technical capacity to continue increasing size of Megarealms, so your offer of 30k (I assume thouse are Ironforge .pro numbers) or 15K/15K Megarealm is unacceptable to them anyway.
The only way further is introduction of crossrealm. If Smaller realms could have access to most features available to Megarealm they would be naturally repopulated by players trying to avoid login queues and lags of Megarealms.
However if there wouldn’t be full integration to be able to quest, go into dungeons and raid with the members of the crossrealm society and CR would be limited to some features like LFG only, players will begin to lean to Retail mentality, when developing contacts with players you can’t fully interact with from another realm is pointless and any social interaction or forming of strong communities is impossible, because automated tools and sheer number of replacements available makes people less tolerant, more toxic towards other players and as the result self centered, destroying essence of WoW as MMORPG turning it into solo game with some MO elements.
Right before Classic released every content creator, every streamer, every community and all the really vocal people from private servers were non-stop talking about how world PvP is so good in vanilla and how its basically half of the game and how world bosses/world events were so much fun on PvP servers and that anyone could participate in them.
So the result was almost everyone mindlessly rolled on the PvP servers only to regret it in phase 2.
The reality was world PvP is not fun to the majority of the player base because most people in the open world are either questing or farming not looking to fight other players.
World bosses were only limited to the top guilds on each realm.
Besides this Blizzard had it so you couldn’t transfer to PvP realms if you’re on a PvE realm which people didn’t want to do due to the very limited selection of PvE vs PvP.
It’s too late to tell people to “just roll on a PvE realm” now.
First of all, that’s not true. The point of a pvp server is that people can indiscriminately attack players from the opposite faction in contested territory. That’s all pvp server is. There is no mandate to participate in world pvp
I’m really not sure what you’re trying to argue or disagree with. No one said anything about anything being mandated. PvE on PvE servers isn’t “mandated” either.
So was the original Nintendo DS, Madden NFL 06, Thotbot, and a bunch of other things that were huge in 2005. I don’t see how’s that relevant.
What? Uh maybe I can help you out, it’s relevant because this is WoW classic, it is supposed to replicate Vanilla, TBC, and Wotlk. You know, those things from 2005. Not sure the point you’re trying to make again with the other examples. We’re not talking about other games on other consoles.
The most famous WoW video is about a guy who likes chicken running into whelp eggs in UBRS with 32.33(repeating of course)% chance of survival. Another famous one is about guy popping vein because no one could handle many whelps on even side. Neither of those is an indication on how people play today (I hope so at least)
… Yes lots and lots of videos were made about WoW. And? Never suggested that it was an indication of how people play today, quite the opposite even, hence the thread in the first place. Again, not following your points at all.
I don’t think that was ever the case. And I am sure that it’s not the case now. Some very casual players make those decisions with absolutely no idea what they are doing, that’s why there are a bunch of leveling players on dead factions.
So you don’t roll on a PvP realm if you want to PvP and this is proven by the fact that some people don’t know what they’re doing and accidentally roll PvP, or level on dead servers. Again, what? Thanks for your long replies but I don’t think we’re understanding eachother at all.
