I’ve been making pugs since BFD, every 3 days. Sunken Temple hits and i cant even fill up one raid. No one is interested, everyone doing princess runs or incursions.
If i do get peeps interested, its dps only . 20 man is just to many to fill up a raid… please dont continue on this course ( even though i think you will )
i always loved 10 man raids
you can easily play with your friends then grab one or two pug to complete
20 man and more need so much organisation nobody want to do
40 man raid without gbid will be a nightmare
Yes! We want casual easy experience, not being forced to deal with loot systems and gathering 20 people. 
More people = more problems
go back to retail
This.
Pugging 20 people for ZG and AQ20 in Classic wasn’t an issue for anybody. My guild has to pug 3-4 people for ST since a bunch of people quit the game, we still have no issue.
You’ve already got that. ST is casual and easy.
What you want is a single player game.
You can easily have a guild with the same loot system as a pug, im in one that uses MS>OS +1 until we get 40 man raids atleast
It isnt about casual or not or hardcore or not. FOr some reason there is no animo for ST. Like i said I ran multiple raids on m ultiple toons every 3 days for BFD and Gnomer, zero issues, longest it had taken was 20 mins. Now for a few times more then 60 mins and all i can gather is dps.
No tank whispers no healers. And the only real change is 20 man, the raid isnt that hard, and even if it was hard, you would still get whispers !
Now you can argue that its the time of day but like i said, i always make my own raids as early as 10:00. ST i do later btw . I dont know how it is during the evening, i am sure it is better but iam also sure its no-where near as it was for BFD/Gnomer phases.
I think it’s also the role imbalance that creates issues.
Last night there were 4 groups, all looking for 3 or more healers. Tanks looking for group long time having to create their own raids to get to play the role and DPS just slotted in to bring warm bodies aside from maybe last 2-3 spots where people look for some really solid synergy.
People tought Gnomer had Healer shortage, it is nothing compared to ST shortage. At least ST kinda benefits from running 2 dps that can off-tank for few fights if the healers or damage struggle with breath stacks and adds. You can’t cut much corners with Healers though and a lot of pugs bring 5 for safety.
this request is in classic spirit
the 20 man 1 week reset pretty much killed pugging , i dont see anyone trying to form a group or looking for one in my server
Puggable content that doesn’t require you to communicate and cooperate with other players is in the classic spirit?
What ‘Classic’ did you play, runescape?
Then your server was never going to survive Classic. ZG and AQ20 were the catchup raids, they were 20 man also. 3 day lockouts, granted. But still 20 man.
If you cant get 20 people once a week, how are you planning to get 20 twice per week?
bringing few people to fill a raid isnt really pugging is it now
you dont play classic to sit in a discord server with a towel to wipe your sweat ,you have retail for that
i play on Wild Growth ,trust me it will survive
A really populated server and yet no one trying to pug should tells us something
anyways you dont even pug , you part of a guild ,so how exactly making raids more pug-friendly will effect you
I play on Wild Growth too so I can offer you some advice:
Pugging people is MUCH easier on Wednesday than any other day and it gets gradually harder the closer to the end of the week it gets. It took my guild 5 minutes to find a healer,2 casters and a feral on Wednesday, but on Tuesday it took us 45 minutes to find the same few role; except we completely gave up looking for a feral.
You don’t have to be ‘sweaty’ to play the content, even pre-nerf. You just can’t AFK it like some of the muppets on this board want. The ‘mechanics’ in Sunken Temple are all easy to deal with.
Because you’re mistaking ‘puggable’ for ‘completely trivialising all of the content’.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that it launched overtuned. Lvl50 20man bosses with more health than lvl60 40man bosses is a bit silly, but then it was nerfed too much. First nerf, great. Second nerf? Overkill.
This game is not for everyone. It is not a Season of Dads, it was in P1, but it is season of their kids now 
Old have to make place for young and those without other commitments…
Is this strange considering “normal” raids were 40, in contrast to SoD who ran 10 man for 5 months?
There’s a difference between clearing anything and calling the raid casual (when people accept any type of clear no matter the time or quailty of it), or looking at the whole picture of recruitment, organization, playing with randoms, setup as a whole and calling it casual or not.
My point is that most raids, 10 or 40, at some point will be cleared by the people who acually want to clear them (as mentioned, quality of clears may differ). But that requires a playerbase that acually wants to raid them. So question is, what type of content and size would acually engage most people in regards to activity.
One could argue that for the longevity of the game, smaller but more active communites would, in comparisson with massive anonymous raidlogging, cause more people to play and play more often. Feeling connected to the group and community keeps people playing. My experience is that once it hits certain threshold in size (and its different for every player) people start to feel unmotivated, less influential and either start focusing on loot only or quit the game. I think most people share experiences of smaller groups getting lost in the masses and quitting.
If Blizzard wanted to create a population thats less self-oriented and go back to the roots of WoW being a social experience, I think smaller cores are a better approach 2024 than numbers for the sake of numbers. Ashenvale PvP wasnt epic, and nobody cared about anything but themselfs and their own gain, and is a good guide line in what happens when numbers become the only thing people think creates something “epic”.
i was sitting in iron forge at reset , staring at Bulletin board addon , and there were 1 LFM and a few LFG the whole night and bunch of guilds spamming
it took you 5 minuets to find 4 people to fill a guild raid ? amazing achievement really. you cant be serious with this comment come on now that is straight up ignorant .
as an EX -retail raider i agree that raids in sod are a joke but most people dont see it that way (and from pugging in gnomer i can tell why) ,so alot of people get discourage by the 20 man req or so its seems
i dont see a problem with making it more accessible for me people
i am all for decent difficulty bosses , but then you just wont find people to raid with unless you join a guild which i am trying to avoid 
From what I’ve heard (never got to do them myself) 40man raids were also easier than anything in SoD so that might be why 40man worked.
It also worked becuase guilds were communities and not just a mean to get loot.
40 man still worked in Classic, but as time went on guilds became more and more rare (unless speedrunning) and were replaced by PUGs or GDKPs where solo players could join without commitment to fill their own pockets and call it a day. The player mentality shifted over the past 20 years, and if we cant recreate Classic in terms of content, why not try to create what the spirit of Classic was and made it so good - the social experience. In that regard, I totally understand people who want smaller guilds and groups going forward.
Honestly I’ve never used that addon, I used the old ‘lookingforgroup’ and ‘trade’ channels.
Yes? It’s the same as when I pugged content in WoTLK. Everybody flocks to the groups that are close to full and already have the required roles (Tank and Healer) already filled. It doesn’t matter how many players the content requires, players do the same thing.
Blizzard made tanking and healing easier and still nobody wants to do it. They just want to zug.
Then they’re playing the wrong game. They’ve come to play a game that was notorious for having large raids, for having 40man raids and 20man catch-up content. BFD, Gnomer and ST were never intended as end-game content, it was levelling content.
And how would making it accessible to you people work? Make it 10man, have no lockout and require no tanks or healers? Perhaps you want a system where you don’t even have to find players, you just sign up and the game creates a group for you and teleports you to an instance filled with loot pinatas? Because… I know a system exactly like that in a different version of the game!
But then the problem is that you’re shooting yourself in the foot. You know that meme with the guy putting his stick in a bike wheel? That’s you right now.
ofc you don’t ,because you dont pug
you see the problem ? you cant even make a group from 0 now even if you wanted
you know exactly how
dont know what you rambling about here ,but the topic is 10 man raids in case you forgot
yeah not going to build my life around a video game ,the best part of p1 and p2 that raiding were puggable , you didnt have to put a pin in your calendar for you to enjoy the game
You have the choice to not pug either.
I saw plenty of people crying about not being able to make groups as a zugzug-only player in the previous phases too.
10 man ‘raids’ don’t have a place in the Classic experience.
That ‘pin in your calender’ was to make life easier so you don’t have to search for people every time you want to play group content.
Lo and behold, what happens without it? You have to search for people to do content. It was ALWAYS going to be that way and ruining the game to cater to you people is unacceptable.
The people that saw the SoD announcement and came to play the game were hoping for a Classic+, not Classic-.